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Government agencies buy commercial data about Americans in bulk

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Re: Government agencies buy commercial data about Americans in bulk

#61
post #21
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Action speaks louder than words. It doesn't matter what people say they prefer, their actions reveal a true preference.

Funny how we stopped drinking lead when they stopped putting lead in our water.

If you want to absolve yourself of personal responsibility, go ahead and blame "them" and "we".

You were free to drink lead-free water the entire time, you just didn't care enough to do so.

Re: Government agencies buy commercial data about Americans in bulk

#62
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most musicians barely make money from music. Most artists don't make money from art - and I should know, being the son of two. You are either the top seller/musician or you are everyone else and in 99.99% of all cases, you are everyone else. Here's another example: a friend of my mom spent the last decade pushing her paintings on etsy. Then trump added all his tariffs and she went from making a minimum wage or there…

> Admittedly, I don't think HN is a good place to promote your product either. It used to be a place where innovation and doing something complex was appreciated. These days it's all about people praising slop. I do sort of agree with that, I mean I literally saw within another thread related to music (Misfits) where this guy https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=hustleracer is clearly using AI and just joined I am se…

I'm with you here as well. Not so much on the UBI side though. I only believe in social measures to a certain degree because it is a slippery slope. At the moment, my job is very demanding and sucks up a lot of my energy. In addition the last decade was an absolute bombardment with family problems and it all fell on my shoulders and I was not betting on myself to sort things out at all(even though I managed against all odds and at the cost of a lot of compromises with myself). And 10 years is a long time, especially in the 25-6 to 35-6 range.

Now I don't have all that much on my shoulders anymore or rather it's very much under control but once everything is truly sorted, I have thought about it many times: I am truly exhausted and on a personal level a less demanding and less busy job does sound appealing in a way even for less money. And this is the catch: not everyone is greedy and many people are capable of saying "you know what, I have enough, let's take it easy". Which would become a huge problem on a large scale when the balance shifts. You have over 3 generations now (alpha, z, millenials and x to a very large degree) who have been bombarded for decades by social media and feel no desire to try or learn something new as opposed to just relying on slop. And it was bad enough as it was even before that - I haven't seen nor do I wish to see a large chunk of my family but to give you an idea, my cousin(at the time around 10 years old) did not know how to eat with a fork and knife or tie his shoes or button up his shirt. Not because of a mental disability but because his parents had a child instead of getting a small dog to take for a walk two times a day.

Imagine when you have tens of millions of those that would gladly scroll through tiktok all day long and rely on UBI without batting an eyelash.

I genuinely don't have a solution but UBI does not sound like it. I agree that for most of history, humanity has been pushed by a very small fraction of individuals but currently I don't see people that are doing it, given that we are currently living in a bullshitter economy: "within the next year we will have {x}".

I don't know of a single instance in humanity where someone has made a big leap, granted that all the basics are provided to them in the same way no one has gotten out of poverty through charity.

If I had to base everything off of my own experience(and those around me), my view is that a certain critical mass of unfortunate circumstances are required in order to get someone to reach their potential.

Re: Government agencies buy commercial data about Americans in bulk

#63
post #27

Netzpolitik.org actually reported on what you can do with this type of data a while ago. They tricked a databroker into getting a free sample of geolocation data, 3.6 billion datapoints. They were able to build individual movement profiles for people and link that with real identities by putting just a little bit of work in. For a government with access to stuff like palantir this would mean a full movement profile f…

Not only is it likely very easy/possible to track everyone with a phone but it has now got to the point where "movement without a cellphone present" is a red flag.

"Hey...why is this guy suddenly deviating from his normal routine? License plate readers show him 100 miles out of his normal area. Why did he leave his phone at home?"

Just like social media. Not participating is considered suspicious.

Anyone with Govt. level access (or billionaire level access) can very easily put all this data together.

Re: Government agencies buy commercial data about Americans in bulk

#64
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but the possession itself of that data without a warrant violates the spirit of the 4th ammendment. So its time that loophole was closed so its not a an issue anyway I actually would be fine with the authorities having the ability to process this data to solve crime and stuff, but only as long as there were checks and balances and it was happening according to the constitution, which it is not right now

> possession itself of that data without a warrant violates the spirit of the 4th ammendment Does it? An 18th-century tavern owner could keep tabs on the comings and goings of their customers. It would have just prompted pushback when they started sharing that list. Possession isn’t the problem. Sharing is.

[dead]

Re: Government agencies buy commercial data about Americans in bulk

#65
post #7

Listen, this is nothing new. You can find articles like that going back years and years. The truth is: convenience trumps privacy in practice in a lot of cases. Two examples: 1. Theoretically speaking, my (data) privacy is of a high value to me! -- Then you should stop using a smart phone. -- Well... 2. I don't want anyone to create a profile of my habits because it's none of their business! -- Hi, do you have a Walm…

> Listen, this is nothing new. "Violations of your constitutional rights have been going on for decades now, so it's time to shut up about them" is certainly a take.

It's a direct violation of the fourth amendment. The worst thing you can do is just accept it, as that normalizes it. This is an end-around to avoid going through judicial channels to obtain information about private citizens, full stop. I'd love to hear about such brazen examples in the past, as right now, we have Kash Patel openly admitting to this activity either out of ignorance or hubris, either of which is terrible.

Re: Government agencies buy commercial data about Americans in bulk

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your tone implies it. "Listen, this is nothing new" is a phrase dripping with "I'm tired of hearing about this". You surely know that the people pointing out continually escalating violations know that the violations are not new.

You inferred it. They did not imply it. They might simply be tired of listening to armchair protestors who don’t take even the most basic actions to backup their words.

Then don't be in the thread.

Re: Government agencies buy commercial data about Americans in bulk

#67
post #27

Netzpolitik.org actually reported on what you can do with this type of data a while ago. They tricked a databroker into getting a free sample of geolocation data, 3.6 billion datapoints. They were able to build individual movement profiles for people and link that with real identities by putting just a little bit of work in. For a government with access to stuff like palantir this would mean a full movement profile f…

The state of the art has advanced so far in doing this. I remember way back in 2017, 9 years ago now, at the Scaled ML conference, Claudia Perlich gave a presentation about using RTB data to target ads. When she got to slide 23 [1] my jaw hit the floor. This was a small ad targeting company, and again, 9 years ago. Here's what they publicly said they had:

Consumer Events:

• 100B DailyEvents

• 20+ data integrations

• Clickstream

• App usage

• Ecommerce sales

• Cash register sales

• Precise Location

Context Data:

• User

• Device

• Location

• URL

• IP

• 200 Million Devices Daily

Universal DataStore

• 50 Trillion Record Consumer History

That's about 150,000 datapoints on everyone in the U.S. For a small company. In 2017.

[1] https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/6212008/ScaledML%20Media%20Ar...

Re: Government agencies buy commercial data about Americans in bulk

#68
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got a link to this? Sounds like a fun read.

Not OP, but here you go. OP had it slightly wrong though: it's not tavern records but membership lists of colonial Boston organizations, and the author is a sociology professor (Kieran Healy), not from Princeton or Harvard. He uses basic social network analysis on historical membership data to identify Paul Revere as the key figure among 254 colonists using nothing but "metadata." The whole thing is written as a sati…

Isn't he also making the point that's a very effective way to triangulate the leaders of an org? That's just going to reinforce the NSA's inclination to do so.

Re: Government agencies buy commercial data about Americans in bulk

#69
I am a big personal privacy advocate. However, I'm also well aware of how much crime is happening online and on signals that don't sit clearly in public and private channels. If you worked with this stuff like I do, you'd understand gov't and le needs more regualted and responsible access to this data. At the same time, if you're in Brazil (FE) there is no need for Facebook to comply to your warrant request. So how do you stop romance scams, coordinated trafficking, everything that happens there (BTW META is a HUGE platform for this stuff) So sometimes, your only way access data is through purchasing it.
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