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Interoperability Can Save the Open Web (2023)

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Re: Interoperability Can Save the Open Web (2023)

#21

Post by embedding-shape »

beeflet wrote: post #17
embedding-shape wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am nobody. I have little impact. I want my programs to be safe from government intrusions, from age checks, from encryption backdoors, from corporate surveillance. How do I win this battle with big tech? If you're only talking specifically about your program that no one else has access to, I don't think there is any battle? Do whatever you want, no one cares nor would even know about it. If you're talking about m…

Anyone will be able to lob legal complaints against your self-hosted mastodon instance if they don't like you, which will bring cops to your door like milkshake brings boys to the yard.

Yes, again, you run a public service, expect to have to follow regulations for public platforms, not sure why anyone would expect something else.

I was talking about creating/running software for yourself, in a self-hosted scenario, not just "I run the software, but it's for others" but really "I run software and it's for myself and/or my family, no one else"./

Re: Interoperability Can Save the Open Web (2023)

#23

Post by jabl »

sixothree wrote: post #5

If you look at the healthcare space, you will realize interoperability only exists because it was mandated by government programs that the patient owns their data and must be provided timely access to all of that data; and also defines specifies the format of that data (open source definitions). You might also define "exists" in some sort of way that makes sense. And you can also realize that payers are encroaching o…

I know nothing about IT project management for healthcare, but just the other day over here in the local news there was a mention that the all-singing-all-dancing healthcare application that the region (with ~1M inhabitants) has been spending years and around 800 million euros to get into production has been so poorly received that they're considering starting over from scratch. I'm so happy seeing my tax money well spent...

This is an implementation of something called MUMPS, which is apparently some US system that is very arcane but widely used.

Again, I'm not an expert on this topic, but it indeed seems like standards, API's, file formats and whatnot would be keys to a system where decoupled components can be evolved step-by-step over time instead of the current system which seems to be a humongous monolith.

Re: Interoperability Can Save the Open Web (2023)

#24

Post by chromacity »

embedding-shape wrote: post #8
renegat0x0 wrote: post #6

I am nobody. I have little impact. I want my programs to be safe from government intrusions, from age checks, from encryption backdoors, from corporate surveillance. How do I win this battle with big tech? I am deeply in self-host. For the self-host to succeed it needs to be better, unregulated, and free. It needs to be easily distributed. The data should be easily distributed. Import and export should be fast and ea…

> I am nobody. I have little impact. I want my programs to be safe from government intrusions, from age checks, from encryption backdoors, from corporate surveillance. How do I win this battle with big tech? If you're only talking specifically about your program that no one else has access to, I don't think there is any battle? Do whatever you want, no one cares nor would even know about it. If you're talking about m…

> If you're only talking specifically about your program that no one else has access to, I don't think there is any battle? Do whatever you want, no one cares nor would even know about it.

Can I do it on my phone?

Re: Interoperability Can Save the Open Web (2023)

#25

Post by beeflet »

embedding-shape wrote: post #21
beeflet wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone will be able to lob legal complaints against your self-hosted mastodon instance if they don't like you, which will bring cops to your door like milkshake brings boys to the yard.

Yes, again, you run a public service, expect to have to follow regulations for public platforms, not sure why anyone would expect something else. I was talking about creating/running software for yourself, in a self-hosted scenario, not just "I run the software, but it's for others" but really "I run software and it's for myself and/or my family, no one else"./

The point of a social network, or blogging or whatever is that it's for others. Furthermore, I think people have the right to free speech and should have the ability to reasonably address the public square (for example, with a blog, or a forum or something).

What I'm saying in the previous comment is that regulations requiring "Age checks, encryption backdoors and other bad/annoying stuff" also apply to small hosts and can be abused like DMCA (unless you are hosting on tor/i2p with good opsec).

It's this notion that any regulation is good because it's done on a "big bad public company" that is at the heart of what I disagree with. At what point do you become a "big bad company"? Does anna's archive count? they accept donations. It just doesn't seem like a fleshed-out worldview.

Re: Interoperability Can Save the Open Web (2023)

#26

Post by ChadNauseam »

chromacity wrote: post #24
embedding-shape wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am nobody. I have little impact. I want my programs to be safe from government intrusions, from age checks, from encryption backdoors, from corporate surveillance. How do I win this battle with big tech? If you're only talking specifically about your program that no one else has access to, I don't think there is any battle? Do whatever you want, no one cares nor would even know about it. If you're talking about m…

> If you're only talking specifically about your program that no one else has access to, I don't think there is any battle? Do whatever you want, no one cares nor would even know about it. Can I do it on my phone?

If you buy a google pixel 9 (the last version for which google released device trees), you can do anything you want on your phone. My pixel runs a version of android I built myself

Re: Interoperability Can Save the Open Web (2023)

#27

Post by goldenarm »

amelius wrote: post #19

At some point this will be solved by AI, where you can just say: hey chatgpt, turn this powerpoint file into a keynote file.

AI is poisoning the well of scraping and automation really fast. It generates so much spam, everyone is starting to block robots now.

Re: Interoperability Can Save the Open Web (2023)

#28

Post by embedding-shape »

beeflet wrote: post #25
embedding-shape wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, again, you run a public service, expect to have to follow regulations for public platforms, not sure why anyone would expect something else. I was talking about creating/running software for yourself, in a self-hosted scenario, not just "I run the software, but it's for others" but really "I run software and it's for myself and/or my family, no one else"./

The point of a social network, or blogging or whatever is that it's for others. Furthermore, I think people have the right to free speech and should have the ability to reasonably address the public square (for example, with a blog, or a forum or something). What I'm saying in the previous comment is that regulations requiring "Age checks, encryption backdoors and other bad/annoying stuff" also apply to small hosts a…

> What I'm saying in the previous comment is that regulations requiring "Age checks, encryption backdoors and other bad/annoying stuff" also apply to small hosts and can be abused like DMCA (unless you are hosting on tor/i2p with good opsec).

Yes, just like even if it's just you and your bakery, you still have to follow a bunch of health and food safety regulations, as you're providing something people can be harmed by.

I don't think it's so out of this world to require similar things for platforms and services available to the public on the internet. Although I wouldn't maybe say it should be straight up illegal, I wouldn't mind more research and understanding of how we could prevent the biggest harms, without infringing on what people do in private. But then is a self-hosted Mastodon instance connected to the public internet and other instances in public or in private? Personally I'd lean towards the first.

Re: Interoperability Can Save the Open Web (2023)

#29

Post by strangattractor »

Interoperability is what made the Web possible. Not sure I buy that it will save it without a fundamental change in people's behavior.

Image you are a 1960s household and RCA tries to sell you a TV to only watch ABC and Zenith has a TV to only watch CBS. 60 years later linear TV is unwatchable by normal humans IMO. It's not like "let advertising pay for this" enshittifying an entire industry hasn't happened before.

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