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End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

patrick-breyer.de

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Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#121

Post by DoingIsLearning »

miohtama wrote: post #106

Here is the EPP's plea to get this passed earlier. They even used a teddy bear image. https://www.eppgroup.eu/newsroom/epp-urges-support-for-last-... "Protecting children is not optional," said Lena Düpont MEP, EPP Group spokeswoman on Legal and Home Affairs. "We call on the S&D Group to stop hiding behind excuses and finally take responsibility. We cannot afford a safe haven for child abusers online. Every delay lea…

We need to add Palantir in bold letters to that list, they are behind this in every way except for 'officially'.

> The Commission’s failure to identify the list of experts as falling within the scope of the complainant’s public access request constitutes maladministration. [0]

> The Commission presented a proposal on preventing and combating child sexual abuse, looking in particular at detecting child pornography. In this context, it has mentioned that support could be provided by the software of the controversial American company Palantir... [1]

> Is Palantir’s failure to register on the Transparency Register compatible with the Commission’s transparency commitments? [1]

(Palantir only entered the Transparency Registry in March 2025 despite being a multi million vendor of Gotham for Europol and European Agencies for more than a decade)

> No detailed records exist concerning a January meeting between European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen and the CEO of controversial US data analytics firm Palantir [2]

[0] https://www.ombudsman.europa.eu/en/decision/en/176658

[1] https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2024-00016...

[2] https://www.euractiv.com/news/commission-kept-no-records-on-...

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#122

Post by wongarsu »

account42 wrote: post #55
rsynnott wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pretty much how it works; there's generally no way, in a modern parliamentary democracy to say "no, and also you can never discuss it again". You could put it in the constitution, but honestly there's a decent argument that parts of chat control would violate the EU's can't-believe-it's-not-a-constitution (the Lisbon Treaty is essentially a constitution, but is not referred to as such because it annoys nationa…

Constituional cours are a last defense against bad laws though and should not be the first one - they are not designed to be fast enough to prevent a lot of damage being done before they strike something down.

The first defense is that the Council of the EU (formed by government ministers of the member states) and the European Parliament (elected directly by EU citizens) have to agree on the legislation. And while the council is staffed by career politicians, the parliament is a more diverse group that's generally a bit closer to the average person

From the point of view of the individual, the parliament is our first defense. And this is an example of it working

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#124

Post by iknowstuff »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #107
cbg0 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The EU is fundamentally flawed. There are no checks and balances You're missing a [citation needed] on that.

Non-elected representatives from my country keep pushing for chat control via the council. How do I, as a citizen, hold them accountable?

Vote against the ruling party in your smaller national election

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#125

Post by geon »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #93
freehorse wrote: post #65

So, in the end a big majority of the conservative/liberal faction (EPP) voted against, and the vast majority of the social democractic faction (S&D) voted for chat control. https://howtheyvote.eu/votes/189270 Just pointing this out because yesterday there was the myth around that "chat control is pushed by the conservatives", obscuring the actual political dynamics in the EU about it.

There's also the DDR and Stasi as a counter example if anyone think mass surveillance is incompatible with socialism. Mass surveillance isn't really a question that projects well onto the left-right scale, and attempting to make it fit a left-right question is more likely to distract than provide a useful understanding.

Yes. I would place it on the authority–liberty axis.

While your examples were on the economic left, they were clearly authoritarian.

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#126

Post by skrebbel »

freehorse wrote: post #65

So, in the end a big majority of the conservative/liberal faction (EPP) voted against, and the vast majority of the social democractic faction (S&D) voted for chat control. https://howtheyvote.eu/votes/189270 Just pointing this out because yesterday there was the myth around that "chat control is pushed by the conservatives", obscuring the actual political dynamics in the EU about it.

EPP proposed it, but then it got amended (ie toned down) so much that they turned on their own proposal. This apparently happens quite a lot. So the way I understand it is they turned it down not because they thought it was bad, but because they didn't think it was bad enough.

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#127

Post by iknowstuff »

freehorse wrote: post #65

So, in the end a big majority of the conservative/liberal faction (EPP) voted against, and the vast majority of the social democractic faction (S&D) voted for chat control. https://howtheyvote.eu/votes/189270 Just pointing this out because yesterday there was the myth around that "chat control is pushed by the conservatives", obscuring the actual political dynamics in the EU about it.

Greens based as always

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#128

Post by patmorgan23 »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #120
izacus wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article you're commenting on is reporting how directly elected representatives defeated the motion. Why do you keep lying?

That's the parliament. What about the council and the commission? Am I not allowed to hold them accountable? Does my power as a citizen only extend to a fourth of the balance of power? They keep getting away with these attrition tactics with regards to implementing near Stasi levels communication surveillance. What about the day they're pushing to give the council unlimited powers, or to abolish voting rights, or to…

The council is made up of heads of state, so no more undemocratic than your own countries executive, and the commission is selected by the Council and approved by the EU parliament.

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#130

Post by triceratops »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #107
cbg0 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The EU is fundamentally flawed. There are no checks and balances You're missing a [citation needed] on that.

Non-elected representatives from my country keep pushing for chat control via the council. How do I, as a citizen, hold them accountable?

Ask your government why they're sending those representatives. As a citizen you vote for your government, right?
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