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Reddit user captures video of 2012 voting machines altering votes

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Re: Reddit user captures video of 2012 voting machines altering votes

#431

Post by juiceandjuice »

MartinCron wrote: post #283
tokenadult wrote: post #189

The system here in Minnesota works much better. All ballots are paper ballots that are indelibly marked by voters. My wife and I voted this morning in our busy precinct in Minnesota, where there are some tight statewide contests about constitutional amendments and perhaps the most contested race for our state's House of Representatives of any electoral district in our state. As usual, we voted by marking bubble-shape…

Bringing up the Coleman/Franken election reminds me of my particular pet peeve. When the margin of victory is less than the margin of error, it's impossible to know the will of the people. One hundredth of one percent is not within any reasonable margin of error.

You're right. But for 3,000,000 votes cast, the margin of error is about 6 hundredths of one percent. At the 99% confidence level, it's .074% variance.

Re: Reddit user captures video of 2012 voting machines altering votes

#432

Post by MartinCron »

msg wrote: post #278
eli wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely not! It's a secret ballot -- you cannot have any way to prove which candidates you voted for.

Unless you have an absentee ballot (e.g., everyone in WA state). You give your filled out (or empty!) ballot to the mafia to drop at the polling station, with the signed outer envelope (declaring under penalty of perjury that this is your vote), and collect your reward. I dropped off my wife's ballot. It is totally normal for one person to drop off multiple ballots at the box. It would even be hard for you to notice…

I dropped off my wife's ballot. It is totally normal for one person to drop off multiple ballots at the box.

I did the same thing with my wife's ballot this morning, and I saw multiple other people dropping more than one ballot as well.

Re: Reddit user captures video of 2012 voting machines altering votes

#433

Post by kbutler »

mcantelon wrote: post #400
briandear wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't "always" favor the republican. That's just hyperbole. There have been widespread reports of Romney votes being altered -- days ago. I think our biggest problem is voter registration flaws and the lack of being able to identify that the person listed on the form is the actual one voting. We should also be dipping people's thumbs in ink like they do in Africa and Mexico to ensure that people don't vote twice…

>They don't "always" favor the republican. That's just hyperbole. I've yet to see a credible instance of vote machine "malfunction" favoring Democrats covered by a reputable source, but if you have any links I'd be interested as it's certainly possible. >Voter fraud is far more common than alleged insidious voting machine malfunctions. Due to the nature of electric voting without a paper trail, there's no way to make…

30 seconds with google found:

http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/2012/11/02/malfunctio... """touched the screen to vote for Mitt Romney but the machine lit up the name of Barack Obama. Stevens tried a second time and again the machine lit up Obama when she selected Romney. She tried a third time and finally Romney’s name lit up. Stevens reported the malfunction to board of elections personnel and was told the voting machine had been “acting up all day.” """

http://selwynduke.typepad.com/selwyndukecom/2012/10/obama-ge...

""" Sher Coromalis ... says she cast her ballot for Governor Mitt Romney, but every time she entered her vote the machine defaulted to President Obama....

Marie Haydock, who also voted at the Bur-Mil Park polling location, had the same problem. ... Is it just me, or is this problem that “arises every election” one where malfunctioning machines always seem to err in favor of Democrats? """

Re: Reddit user captures video of 2012 voting machines altering votes

#434

Post by genwin »

briandear wrote: post #366
genwin wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistics tells you the odds that the exit poll would disagree by some degree with the actual result. If the odds show, for example, only a 1 in a 100 million chance of it happening, an investigation should take place. That you've never hit an exit pollster doesn't say much, because the odds can be computed with high confidence by polling only a tiny fraction of the voters. Statistics is highly valuable despite not…

"It's a foregone conclusion".. ?? Because of Nate Silver's statistical analysis of polls? The polls which themselves are flawed. The "statistics" are based on nothing but polls, all with margins of errors and varied methodology. A sample of 1000 people can hardly predict an entire state, because there are many factors that influence turnout that aren't captured in polls. Being the subject of a poll is generally a pas…

> The "statistics" are based on nothing but polls, all with margins of errors and varied methodology.

Sure, but if the methodology is standard and the poll shows 60%/40% with a 3% margin of error, you can safely bet money on the outcome. Statistics works just as well for casinos; they may lose in the long run, but they almost certainly won't.

> "Likely voters" is a very subjective term and thus a difficult thing to quantify.

Stats can be used to determine the likelihood that those being polled will actually vote.

Re: Reddit user captures video of 2012 voting machines altering votes

#436

Post by grey-area »

danielweber wrote: post #405
incongruity wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Computer systems can only produce a paper facsimile of the vote cast – and thus it must be checked, immediately, by the voter to verify that their intentions were recorded and reflected. Further, that paper record must itself be capable of being re-read/re-counted by different hardware easily so that the (invisible) tally of votes can be verified. In the end, you need to essentially produce a paper ballot but you bur…

Read the link in tokenadult's post about Minnesota. Paper is hardly easy to count when you get to the dolts who don't know how to mark a ballot. What does it mean when the guy marks a vote for every question but also writes "LIZARD PEOPLE" in every write-in ballot spot? Lots of people really don't like the fact that the senator is chosen based on how 3 people sit down and decide what that means, or whether this chad…

There's no ambiguity about a spoiled ballot. It's a legitimate protest with a clear outcome - the vote is not counted. A simple system of slips of paper marked by hand and counted by hand works better than anything involving chads, touch screens or electronic counting.

Paper ballots are really the best solution we have at present and I'd argue the involvement of as many people as possible in counting and supervision is a good thing. With clear evidence like this video of probable fraud and at the very least incompetetence the current touch screen voting machines should be removed at least until they are properly vetted and verified.

Re: Reddit user captures video of 2012 voting machines altering votes

#437

Post by jrs235 »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #371
tokenadult wrote: post #189

The system here in Minnesota works much better. All ballots are paper ballots that are indelibly marked by voters. My wife and I voted this morning in our busy precinct in Minnesota, where there are some tight statewide contests about constitutional amendments and perhaps the most contested race for our state's House of Representatives of any electoral district in our state. As usual, we voted by marking bubble-shape…

I'm disappointed that the LA Times story doesn't include my favorite anecdote from the Franken/Coleman recount: the person who voted for "lizard people" http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2008/11/23/so_w...

Wow! I can't believe they threw that ballot out! There was only one clearly marked choice!

Re: Reddit user captures video of 2012 voting machines altering votes

#438

Post by [deleted] »

tokenadult wrote: post #189

The system here in Minnesota works much better. All ballots are paper ballots that are indelibly marked by voters. My wife and I voted this morning in our busy precinct in Minnesota, where there are some tight statewide contests about constitutional amendments and perhaps the most contested race for our state's House of Representatives of any electoral district in our state. As usual, we voted by marking bubble-shape…

[deleted]

Re: Reddit user captures video of 2012 voting machines altering votes

#439

Post by MartinCron »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #376
eli wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No dice. One of the goals is that you can't prove how you voted (i.e. so you can't sell your vote).

> you can't prove how you voted (i.e. so you can't sell your vote). // I assumed that if anything it was to prevent people being pressured in to voting a particular way (eg an abusive spouse) - what' wrong with selling your vote, surely that's still democratic: you've chosen to accept a particular candidate based on the outcome for you.

what's wrong with selling your vote, surely that's still democratic

Besides just being distasteful, just handing over powerful positions in our society to the highest bidder seems like a formula for brazen abuse.

Re: Reddit user captures video of 2012 voting machines altering votes

#440

Post by kbutler »

mcantelon wrote: post #324
JoeCortopassi wrote: post #295

I know that this will remain at the bottom of this thread, because it doesn't have enough conspiracy theory in it, but does anyone really think that this is actual vote tampering ? I mean, why on earth would you tamper with a voting machine so that it stuffs the ballot, but have it update the UI so that the user can see and report the error? This should fall to the way side of failing basic logic, but it doesn't beca…

>I know that this will remain at the bottom of this thread, because it doesn't have enough conspiracy theory in it, but does anyone really think that this is actual vote tampering? This exact thing happened last election. Why does it only happen to the advantage of Republican candidates?

Posted above what I found w/ 30 seconds of googling: Same touch one candidate, other candidate gets the vote defect, same dismissive attitude from poll workers, only difference is it favored the opposite party.
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