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Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

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Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#71

Post by Teknoman117 »

adelmotsjr wrote: post #5

Reading these posts always make me feel like an imposter. People are dealing with such low level things, while i'm outta here building simple CRUDs.

As someone who works on systems at this level, believe me, it’s a learnable skill. And at least an intellectually valuable one I think too. Even if you never really need the knowledge for the things you do, there’s a nice feeling that comes from seeing something done at a high level and understanding how that makes its way down into the system and why those design choices were made.

If I were more money motivated I’d probably be building CRUD apps too. I just like weird puzzles XD.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#72

Post by anal_reactor »

tombert wrote: post #16

Wine is a project that I've grown a near-infinite level of respect for. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that a lot of the work for Wine is boring and thankless. Digging through and trying to get exact parity with both the documented and undocumented behavior of Windows for the past 30 years doesn't sound fun, but it's finding every little weird edge case that makes Wine a viable product. The fact that Wine runs…

Yes, Wine is truly a miracle. Once full support for Office is achieved, we should expect huge uptick in Linux adoption.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#73

Post by marssaxman »

ticulatedspline wrote: post #4

Wine might be oddly self-defeating. Broad game support on Linux increases the viability of Linux as a desktop, which increases market share, which may result in developers creating Linux ports as a 1st class concern, which don't need Wine to run.

It seems more likely to me that the Windows API will become the de-facto Linux gaming SDK, and the idea of porting a game to Linux will become meaningless.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#74

Post by hungryhobbit »

DeathArrow wrote: post #27

While I am not a big gamer anymore, I am curious whether this new Wine release make it possible to run Windows software such as Photoshop or Visual Studio on Linux with decent speed and decent resource usage.

Linux runs VS Code just fine. If you mean the larger Visual Studio suite ... why on earth would anyone want to run that garbage pile on Linux?

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#75

Post by pdpi »

hxorr wrote: post #53
tombert wrote: post #16

Wine is a project that I've grown a near-infinite level of respect for. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that a lot of the work for Wine is boring and thankless. Digging through and trying to get exact parity with both the documented and undocumented behavior of Windows for the past 30 years doesn't sound fun, but it's finding every little weird edge case that makes Wine a viable product. The fact that Wine runs…

ReactOS also deserves an honorary mention. A lot of knowledge from that project feeds into Wine.

And vice-versa. It's pretty interesting that the two projects haven't kind of merged despite all the collaboration.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#76

Post by dmitrygr »

DeathArrow wrote: post #27

While I am not a big gamer anymore, I am curious whether this new Wine release make it possible to run Windows software such as Photoshop or Visual Studio on Linux with decent speed and decent resource usage.

At least for the last decade Visual Studio and Photoshop ran just fine on wine.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#77

Post by lifis »

It seems like it would be possible to implement this in userspace using shared memory to store the data structures and using just one eventfd per thread to park/unpark (or a futex if not waiting for anything else), which should be fully correct and have similar or faster performance, at the cost of not being secure or robust against process crashes (which isn't a big problem for more Wine usage).

It seems that neither esync or fsync do this though - why?

Claude thinks that "nobody was motivated enough to write and debug the complex shared-memory waiter-list logic when simpler (if less correct) approaches worked for 95% of games, and when correctness finally mattered enough, the kernel was the more natural place to put it". Is that true?

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#78

Post by FpUser »

ticulatedspline wrote: post #4

Wine might be oddly self-defeating. Broad game support on Linux increases the viability of Linux as a desktop, which increases market share, which may result in developers creating Linux ports as a 1st class concern, which don't need Wine to run.

If I had a guarantee that every windows application that is important to me runs on Wine I would switch next day. Now I use Windows to develop both - Windows and Linux applications even when primary running mode for application is business backend on Linux

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#79

Post by fluffybucktsnek »

akdev1l wrote: post #41
orbital-decay wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlikely. Games need a stable ABI and Win32 is the only stable ABI on Linux.

Proprietary software needs a stable ABI. Not games. DOOM runs on any Linux system since forever because we had access to the source. You can build it for Linux 2.6 and it’ll probably still work today. Sadly most games are proprietary

Even if all games were FOSS, without - at least - a stable API, most games will remain a hassle to run. DOOM doesn't deal as much with this due to the high amount of volunteers, but relying on community support for all games is just outsourcing labor to some unlucky fellows. At best, it's yet another pain for Linux users. At worse, it's the death of unpopular games. Either case, a hurdle for Linux adoption.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#80

Post by BadBadJellyBean »

Jblx2 wrote: post #20
ticulatedspline wrote: post #4

Wine might be oddly self-defeating. Broad game support on Linux increases the viability of Linux as a desktop, which increases market share, which may result in developers creating Linux ports as a 1st class concern, which don't need Wine to run.

If you game/app runs on Wine, doesn't that reduce the pressure to develop a Linux port?

Possibly but does it realistically matter? I don't care why my games run on linux I just care that they do. I encountered a few cases where the native version was inferior to the wine version (Cronos is one example). With wine improving there is very little downside to just using it.
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