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Reddit user captures video of 2012 voting machines altering votes

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Re: Reddit user captures video of 2012 voting machines altering votes

#341

Post by TwistedWeasel »

jerf wrote: post #220
TwistedWeasel wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The consumer electronics industry has shipped hundreds of millions of touch screens in the last few years and i've not seen a single article complaining that they opened up their new tablet/phone to find it mis-calibrated and that their touches were off my such a huge margin. Why are voting machines apparently subject to calibration problems that other touch screen devices are not?

I have owned a ton of touch screen devices. None of them were miscalibrated, even after years of use. I have used a ton of touch screen devices in public. I've encountered quite a few that were miscalibrated. Public devices put up with abuse that your private devices do not.

Honestly curious - what kind of abuse could cause a calibration error?

My kids abuse my iPad pretty heavily but generally smacking on the screen with their hands and fingers a lot but I still have never seen it mis-calculate a touch.

Re: Reddit user captures video of 2012 voting machines altering votes

#342

Post by prakashk »

btilly wrote: post #264
Qworg wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vote manipulation? Yes. Just what we need? Definitely. I cannot think of a scenario where having more people in a representative sample would be worse than having less.

What is this "representative sample" that you're talking about? It is well-known that the subset of the population that goes to the polls is NOT representative of the country as a whole. That is why pollsters are so careful to get polls of "likely voters". Because Republicans tend to be more motivated to vote than Democrats, so if they just took a poll of everyone they called, the results would always be strongly ske…

Whether the voting public is a "representative sample" or not, it does not change the main point of the GP.

Re: Reddit user captures video of 2012 voting machines altering votes

#343

Post by [deleted] »

jbooth wrote: post #338
sinnerswing wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's one FROM Romney to Obama 'DOZENS' OF COLORADO ROMNEY VOTERS CLAIM MACHINES CHANGED VOTES TO OBAMA http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/11/03/Dozens-of...

Breitbart is much less credible than a reddit poster with video. Actually, he'd be much less credible than an anonymous 4chan poster without video.

[deleted]

Re: Reddit user captures video of 2012 voting machines altering votes

#344

Post by specialist »

jcurbo wrote: post #322
eli wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely not! It's a secret ballot -- you cannot have any way to prove which candidates you voted for.

This entire thread is interesting because our typical programming instincts - making sure user actions are linked to user desires via digital signatures, etc - get completely thrown out the window when you talk about voting and secret ballots. You need to be able to ensure the voter is able to make their choice independently, without pressure or publicity - but you can not perform any kind of integrity check that wou…

Yup. There is exactly no way to ensure the secret ballot (voter privacy) or public count (auditable results) with any form of electronic voting.

Re: Reddit user captures video of 2012 voting machines altering votes

#346

Post by param »

azharcs wrote: post #180
param wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dear Sir, As an Indian I can testify that we actually have far more election abuse - people being blocked from entering a voting booth, vote boxes(still vote on paper) being stolen, voting booths set on fire... Of course, again, there is media acting as a watchdog, and a hope that the manipulation is statistically insignificant.

I would like to disagree with Mr.Param who is either being a cynic or trying to be "me-too". India is aggressively moving away from paper-ballot voting to EVM's. In our last general elections, a million electronic voting machines (EVM's) were used which reduces vote-rigging, ballot capture etc. In maybe 5 years, we will be completely rid of paper-ballots. For further read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_voting_m…

All right, I have been living in the US for a while, and didn't know about the move to electronic voting. However, my point about there being FAR more abuse in India stands. Here are some references: Fatal attacks near polling booth - 2009 - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123985213176424031.html

Booth capturing "found primarily in India" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booth_capturing

intimidation on racial lines: http://uk.oneworld.net/article/view/162808/1/5847

You are plain kidding if you feel elections in India are anywhere close to being as good as US.

Re: Reddit user captures video of 2012 voting machines altering votes

#347

Post by evan_ »

sharkweek wrote: post #103
swang wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except this just frustrates the voter and maybe he doesn't bother voting for Obama at all. There's no accusation of "altering" the votes because how do you track, "Touchscreen didn't select Obama, voter just gave up?"

Donning my tin foil hat for a minute here -- I think if I were to try and attempt to commit voter fraud through the machines, I'd make it this obvious intentionally so it seemed like a legitimate accident to those who noticed; "It's too obvious to be fraud" It would probably cause a small dent and shift by people who don't notice or are confused (elderly).

If you had complete control over a voting machine, it wouldn't make any sense to try to lower turnout or confuse anyone- you'd want people to vote and leave without having noticed anything, so you could change their vote.

The result here is that the voting machine was taken out of duty and will be investigated. If the strategy was to make the error so outlandish that nobody would believe it was happening, the strategy has failed.

Since it's pretty obvious that this would be the outcome, it's not a good strategy, and is therefore not likely to have been enacted.

Re: Reddit user captures video of 2012 voting machines altering votes

#348

Post by jcampbell1 »

zbowling wrote: post #313
eli wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No dice. One of the goals is that you can't prove how you voted (i.e. so you can't sell your vote).

No one can prove I voted with a one way hash either. That's the point. Only I can verify myself.

You are still missing the point. Voters can't be given a receipt for how they voted, because then they can sell their vote.

Re: Reddit user captures video of 2012 voting machines altering votes

#349

Post by erichocean »

uhwuggawuh wrote: post #217
kevinalexbrown wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about, e.g. taking a video of your vote as the original Reddit poster did? I think this verification may already be a reality. The alternative is to disallow any form of verification, as with the Reddit poster, but then we lose the ability to perform checks on the voting procedure, and would never have known about this current anomaly. What's missing, though, is the proof that who you voted for is who the vote w…

Even taking video is illegal, as that could also be used as evidence of voting for a particular candidate, allowing candidates to buy votes.

Well, we wouldn't want money to be part of the political process!

Oh wait.

Re: Reddit user captures video of 2012 voting machines altering votes

#350

Post by nsxwolf »

This seems like a fairly poor way to implement voter fraud. The screen gives instant feedback. No Obama voter is going to say "Oh well, I guess I'll just cast my vote for Romney then."

If you were reprogramming the machine, wouldn't you be better off changing it to show Obama had been selected on the screen, but then print Romney onto the paper ballot? There's a better chance a voter won't bother scrutinizing the printout.

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