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LaGuardia pilots raised safety alarms months before deadly runway crash

theguardian.com

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Re: LaGuardia pilots raised safety alarms months before deadly runway crash

#21

Post by jen20 »

adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #7
FL410 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Go look at the atc subreddit, controllers have been begging for help for ages. This isn't one guy's fault.

>This isn't one guy's fault. Counterpoint. It's Regen's fault. He's the guy who decided that a high priority of the government was making sure air traffic controllers had no power to fight back against being horrifically overworked (because unions are evil you see)

There have been six presidents who could have addressed this since Reagan. Every one of them shoulders some of the responsibility.

Re: LaGuardia pilots raised safety alarms months before deadly runway crash

#22

Post by m_fayer »

MisterTea wrote: post #12
FL410 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Go look at the atc subreddit, controllers have been begging for help for ages. This isn't one guy's fault.

When I heard about the crash I immediately recalled the recent articles about ATC shortages and overworked ATC's. And here we are. ONE dude running ATC for LaGuardia. Mind boggling. I place no blame on the ATC as they were doing everything they could given the shit sandwich they were handed. I see this happening all over with staffs getting pared down to minimums, more (sometimes unpaid) over time, prices going up, a…

I’m not trying to minimize a tragedy, but maybe this is almost the perfect wake up call?

Not many fatalities but nevertheless a spectacular collision. At a major hub airport in a major city. It’s hard to look away from, the cause is obvious, and all that without hundreds of deaths.

Re: LaGuardia pilots raised safety alarms months before deadly runway crash

#23

Post by 0xy »

ndiddy wrote: post #5

I just hope they don't try to pin this on the controller who was on duty and move on without putting plans in place for some sort of structural change. Controllers are forced to work 60+ hour weeks and overnight shifts, and the controller in question was working both ground and air control simultaneously due to staffing shortages. If you listen to the ATC audio, he was handling finding a spot for a plane that aborted…

LaGuardia did have a fully staffed ATC, and there's zero evidence this controller was overworked. You seem to be prematurely ascribing cause when nothing has been investigated yet.

Re: LaGuardia pilots raised safety alarms months before deadly runway crash

#24

Post by metalliqaz »

ryanmcbride wrote: post #16
metalliqaz wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know it was due to staffing shortages? It is common at LGA for one controller to be handling Tower and Ground late at night.

Maybe there should be more than one

Maybe. Lets see what the NTSB recommendations say.

However despite the downvotes I still haven't seen evidence that they were running understaffed at that moment.

What I do know is that the developing emergency on the tarmac due to an apparently hazardous smell in another plane is likely the cause of the confusion that led to this incident. That's a trigger that could have been exacerbated by fatigue but we don't have any evidence of that yet.

Re: LaGuardia pilots raised safety alarms months before deadly runway crash

#25

Post by cjrp »

metalliqaz wrote: post #9
ndiddy wrote: post #5

I just hope they don't try to pin this on the controller who was on duty and move on without putting plans in place for some sort of structural change. Controllers are forced to work 60+ hour weeks and overnight shifts, and the controller in question was working both ground and air control simultaneously due to staffing shortages. If you listen to the ATC audio, he was handling finding a spot for a plane that aborted…

How do you know it was due to staffing shortages? It is common at LGA for one controller to be handling Tower and Ground late at night.

That seems mad, given the volume of traffic they're working - even without emergencies. My local GA field is single controller, and that's VFR, grass runways, averages 40-50 movements/day.

Re: LaGuardia pilots raised safety alarms months before deadly runway crash

#26

Post by metalliqaz »

jen20 wrote: post #17
metalliqaz wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know it was due to staffing shortages? It is common at LGA for one controller to be handling Tower and Ground late at night.

> It is common at LGA for one controller to be handling Tower and Ground late at night. What happens when they need the bathroom, or have some kind of medical problem? If it's really a common case for one controller to handle things, the system itself needs to be fundamentally rethought.

There are other people there, but the person on the radio is doing both.

Re: LaGuardia pilots raised safety alarms months before deadly runway crash

#27

Post by pklausler »

metalliqaz wrote: post #9
ndiddy wrote: post #5

I just hope they don't try to pin this on the controller who was on duty and move on without putting plans in place for some sort of structural change. Controllers are forced to work 60+ hour weeks and overnight shifts, and the controller in question was working both ground and air control simultaneously due to staffing shortages. If you listen to the ATC audio, he was handling finding a spot for a plane that aborted…

How do you know it was due to staffing shortages? It is common at LGA for one controller to be handling Tower and Ground late at night.

"The system worked yesterday, so it should have worked forever."

Re: LaGuardia pilots raised safety alarms months before deadly runway crash

#28

Post by consumer451 »

0xy wrote: post #23
ndiddy wrote: post #5

I just hope they don't try to pin this on the controller who was on duty and move on without putting plans in place for some sort of structural change. Controllers are forced to work 60+ hour weeks and overnight shifts, and the controller in question was working both ground and air control simultaneously due to staffing shortages. If you listen to the ATC audio, he was handling finding a spot for a plane that aborted…

LaGuardia did have a fully staffed ATC, and there's zero evidence this controller was overworked. You seem to be prematurely ascribing cause when nothing has been investigated yet.

> LaGuardia did have a fully staffed ATC

According to whom? Management, or controllers?

Certainly does not seem like controllers agree:

https://old.reddit.com/r/ATC/

Re: LaGuardia pilots raised safety alarms months before deadly runway crash

#29

Post by jakelazaroff »

metalliqaz wrote: post #9
ndiddy wrote: post #5

I just hope they don't try to pin this on the controller who was on duty and move on without putting plans in place for some sort of structural change. Controllers are forced to work 60+ hour weeks and overnight shifts, and the controller in question was working both ground and air control simultaneously due to staffing shortages. If you listen to the ATC audio, he was handling finding a spot for a plane that aborted…

How do you know it was due to staffing shortages? It is common at LGA for one controller to be handling Tower and Ground late at night.

You are describing a staffing shortage.

Re: LaGuardia pilots raised safety alarms months before deadly runway crash

#30

Post by fyrepuffs »

ndiddy wrote: post #5

I just hope they don't try to pin this on the controller who was on duty and move on without putting plans in place for some sort of structural change. Controllers are forced to work 60+ hour weeks and overnight shifts, and the controller in question was working both ground and air control simultaneously due to staffing shortages. If you listen to the ATC audio, he was handling finding a spot for a plane that aborted…

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