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LaGuardia pilots raised safety alarms months before deadly runway crash

theguardian.com

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Re: LaGuardia pilots raised safety alarms months before deadly runway crash

#11

Post by 2c0m »

FL410 wrote: post #3
notRobot wrote: post #2

There was a single traffic controller handling the entire airport. This was bound to happen and will keep happening unless things change. It's absurd that the US hasn't been able to fix its ATC shortage in decades. Currently over 41% of facilities are reliant on mandatory overtime, with controllers frequently working 60-hour weeks with only four days off per month.

This. Go look at the atc subreddit, controllers have been begging for help for ages. This isn't one guy's fault.

I actually looked into becoming an ATC controller a year or two ago (I love aviation) and they had an age cap of ~30 to start training. I'm 32, so ruled out.

Re: LaGuardia pilots raised safety alarms months before deadly runway crash

#12

Post by MisterTea »

FL410 wrote: post #3
notRobot wrote: post #2

There was a single traffic controller handling the entire airport. This was bound to happen and will keep happening unless things change. It's absurd that the US hasn't been able to fix its ATC shortage in decades. Currently over 41% of facilities are reliant on mandatory overtime, with controllers frequently working 60-hour weeks with only four days off per month.

This. Go look at the atc subreddit, controllers have been begging for help for ages. This isn't one guy's fault.

When I heard about the crash I immediately recalled the recent articles about ATC shortages and overworked ATC's. And here we are. ONE dude running ATC for LaGuardia. Mind boggling.

I place no blame on the ATC as they were doing everything they could given the shit sandwich they were handed. I see this happening all over with staffs getting pared down to minimums, more (sometimes unpaid) over time, prices going up, and no raises.

Re: LaGuardia pilots raised safety alarms months before deadly runway crash

#13

Post by blitzar »

amelius wrote: post #10
notRobot wrote: post #2

There was a single traffic controller handling the entire airport. This was bound to happen and will keep happening unless things change. It's absurd that the US hasn't been able to fix its ATC shortage in decades. Currently over 41% of facilities are reliant on mandatory overtime, with controllers frequently working 60-hour weeks with only four days off per month.

I'm going to make myself unpopular and ask if an AI could have prevented this accident.

You are absolulety right, the blockchain could have prevented this accident

Re: LaGuardia pilots raised safety alarms months before deadly runway crash

#14

Post by FL410 »

metalliqaz wrote: post #9
ndiddy wrote: post #5

I just hope they don't try to pin this on the controller who was on duty and move on without putting plans in place for some sort of structural change. Controllers are forced to work 60+ hour weeks and overnight shifts, and the controller in question was working both ground and air control simultaneously due to staffing shortages. If you listen to the ATC audio, he was handling finding a spot for a plane that aborted…

How do you know it was due to staffing shortages? It is common at LGA for one controller to be handling Tower and Ground late at night.

And therein lies the problem. Clearly, having one overworked controller running a combined tower is not safe nor sustainable.

Re: LaGuardia pilots raised safety alarms months before deadly runway crash

#15

Post by dehrmann »

amelius wrote: post #10
notRobot wrote: post #2

There was a single traffic controller handling the entire airport. This was bound to happen and will keep happening unless things change. It's absurd that the US hasn't been able to fix its ATC shortage in decades. Currently over 41% of facilities are reliant on mandatory overtime, with controllers frequently working 60-hour weeks with only four days off per month.

I'm going to make myself unpopular and ask if an AI could have prevented this accident.

You don't need modern AI; you can build a system that does voice recognition, models the airport and airspace, and applies looks for violations.

Actually, you might be able to try this. Live ATC and radar is available.

Re: LaGuardia pilots raised safety alarms months before deadly runway crash

#16

Post by ryanmcbride »

metalliqaz wrote: post #9
ndiddy wrote: post #5

I just hope they don't try to pin this on the controller who was on duty and move on without putting plans in place for some sort of structural change. Controllers are forced to work 60+ hour weeks and overnight shifts, and the controller in question was working both ground and air control simultaneously due to staffing shortages. If you listen to the ATC audio, he was handling finding a spot for a plane that aborted…

How do you know it was due to staffing shortages? It is common at LGA for one controller to be handling Tower and Ground late at night.

Maybe there should be more than one

Re: LaGuardia pilots raised safety alarms months before deadly runway crash

#17

Post by jen20 »

metalliqaz wrote: post #9
ndiddy wrote: post #5

I just hope they don't try to pin this on the controller who was on duty and move on without putting plans in place for some sort of structural change. Controllers are forced to work 60+ hour weeks and overnight shifts, and the controller in question was working both ground and air control simultaneously due to staffing shortages. If you listen to the ATC audio, he was handling finding a spot for a plane that aborted…

How do you know it was due to staffing shortages? It is common at LGA for one controller to be handling Tower and Ground late at night.

> It is common at LGA for one controller to be handling Tower and Ground late at night.

What happens when they need the bathroom, or have some kind of medical problem? If it's really a common case for one controller to handle things, the system itself needs to be fundamentally rethought.

Re: LaGuardia pilots raised safety alarms months before deadly runway crash

#19

Post by voxic11 »

adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #7
FL410 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Go look at the atc subreddit, controllers have been begging for help for ages. This isn't one guy's fault.

>This isn't one guy's fault. Counterpoint. It's Regen's fault. He's the guy who decided that a high priority of the government was making sure air traffic controllers had no power to fight back against being horrifically overworked (because unions are evil you see)

Wasn't it Congress who passed 5 U.S.C. § 7311. which says a person may not “accept or hold” a federal job if they “participate in a strike” against the U.S. government.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/5/7311

originally passed as

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?edition=2023&num=0&req=g...

So arguably if Reagan had not fired them he would be failing to uphold the laws of the United States.

Re: LaGuardia pilots raised safety alarms months before deadly runway crash

#20

Post by busterarm »

adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #7
FL410 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Go look at the atc subreddit, controllers have been begging for help for ages. This isn't one guy's fault.

>This isn't one guy's fault. Counterpoint. It's Regen's fault. He's the guy who decided that a high priority of the government was making sure air traffic controllers had no power to fight back against being horrifically overworked (because unions are evil you see)

The issue is the shortage, which that doesn't address. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Was in three different unions. Union didn't do squat for me. Mainly kept my wages down and gave the friends of the union rep the best shifts.

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