Ten Finger Touch Screen Keyboard • Hacker News Board

Re: Ten Finger Touch Screen Keyboard

#51

Post by monochromatic » Tue, Nov 06, 2012, 1:33 PM UTC

joe_the_user wrote: post #26

I think the ideal phone/tablet keyboard would be a "transparent" system based on holding the back of the screen (edit: no real estate lost and great ergonomics). Microsoft patented the idea a while back and among other sucky things about patents, they may simply not implementing it at all. http://www.patentbolt.com/2012/05/microsoft-invents-portable...

Pro-tip: that's not a patent. It's a patent application.

But because that stupid site doesn't tell you the publication number, it's impossible to know (without doing some searching) what's happened in the meantime. Maybe it's issued as a patent, maybe it's still pending, maybe it's been abandoned. Also, no mention of the claims? Amateur hour.

Re: Ten Finger Touch Screen Keyboard

#52

Post by johnzdennis » Tue, Nov 06, 2012, 2:47 PM UTC

zheng wrote: post #6

The keyboard trainer seems to be slightly broken, ASET != ARST and NEIO != NIOP. I'm on Win7, Chrome 23 http://i.imgur.com/cdQdj.png

Sorry about that - I was working on the CHORDMAK (Colemak-based) version at the same time and forgot to fix it. It's sorted now - thanks for the heads up!

Re: Ten Finger Touch Screen Keyboard

#53

Post by johnzdennis » Tue, Nov 06, 2012, 2:50 PM UTC

relic wrote: post #9

evoxed wrote: post #2

Direct link to the virtual keyboard trainer (set your input manager to US/qwerty first): http://asetniop.com/keyboardTutorial.html

Very cool, but the fact that the keyboard on the screen doesn't match the output (input?) nor the asetniop 'idea' makes it incredibly confusing and was enough for me to say 'ok, I'm done'. Unless it's just a problem that I'm experiencing, it doesn't seem like the author (or anyone) ever tested this tutorial out.

I was working on the versions for Colemak and Dvorak users at the same time and forgot to update the original; it's sorted now. Please give it another try!

Re: Ten Finger Touch Screen Keyboard

#54

Post by pkamb » Tue, Nov 06, 2012, 3:52 PM UTC

pkamb wrote: post #34

People in this topic might be interested in a project of mine: one-handed typing using your existing two-handed muscle memory. Basically the muscle memory you use to type "F" is the same as typing "J"; index finger, home row. Your left hand already has the muscle memory to type right-hand characters, and vice versa. Press the "mirrored" key with the other hand... your brain should be able to make this substitution al…

As an example, tapping the keys "tges" with your left hand will output "this". See how the keys correspond spatially on the keyboard? [G -> H] [E -> I]

Re: Ten Finger Touch Screen Keyboard

#55

Post by evoxed » Tue, Nov 06, 2012, 4:42 PM UTC

johnzdennis wrote: post #53

relic wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very cool, but the fact that the keyboard on the screen doesn't match the output (input?) nor the asetniop 'idea' makes it incredibly confusing and was enough for me to say 'ok, I'm done'. Unless it's just a problem that I'm experiencing, it doesn't seem like the author (or anyone) ever tested this tutorial out.

I was working on the versions for Colemak and Dvorak users at the same time and forgot to update the original; it's sorted now. Please give it another try!

Good to know. I was just setting up a test version in kr4mb with a dvorak variation to give it a shot.

Re: Ten Finger Touch Screen Keyboard

#56

Post by TuringTest » Tue, Nov 06, 2012, 5:49 PM UTC

jaysonelliot wrote: post #24

I love chord keyboards as a concept, but I've never committed to one because I've been wary of acquiring a skill on such a specific device, and then not having access to one unless I bring it with me. Making a chorded keyboard a software solution is very appealing for that reason, especially if ASETNIOP were to become a standard approach. For what it's worth, the first mouse was intended to be used in conjunction wit…

I've tried the online tutorial, and it's surprising how quick I've noticed some muscle memory for the most frequent chords (for letters r, h, d, l).

I think they've found something with the "always use the same finger as in QWERTY, plus another one". I was skeptical that users could ever adapt to a new layout, but this isn't exactly that, so it has potential.

The best thing is that it doesn't interfere with the existing skill on the QWERTY keyboard.

Re: Ten Finger Touch Screen Keyboard

#57

Post by TuringTest » Tue, Nov 06, 2012, 5:53 PM UTC

Skywing wrote: post #3

I'm surprised that they emphasize the fact that the keyboard can be invisible or small. Personally I think that's the most confusing feature because it leaves you tapping on the screen, or website as in the video. That aspect to me is not very intuitive as to whether or not I'm typing currently or trying to navigate the website by tapping a link, etc. Also, if it's invisible, how do you know when the keyboard is brou…

Watching the video it seems that the keyboard is active as long as a text-entry widget is focused, so it works exactly like a visible virtual keyboard - although introducing a mode with no visual feedback may sometimes induce errors.

Re: Ten Finger Touch Screen Keyboard

#58

Post by johnzdennis » Tue, Nov 06, 2012, 5:58 PM UTC

evoxed wrote: post #55

johnzdennis wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was working on the versions for Colemak and Dvorak users at the same time and forgot to update the original; it's sorted now. Please give it another try!

Good to know. I was just setting up a test version in kr4mb with a dvorak variation to give it a shot.

Here's the Dvorak version for keyboards:

http://asetniop.com/keyboardTutorialDvo.html OR http://asetniop.com/keyboardTutorialDvoQ.html

Depends on whether your keyboard is mapped to the Dvorak layout or Qwerty (basically, try one, if it doesn't work the way it's supposed to, use the other one)

and for iPads:

http://asetniop.com/ipadTutorialDvo.html

Re: Ten Finger Touch Screen Keyboard

#59

Post by lps41 » Tue, Nov 06, 2012, 7:11 PM UTC

johnzdennis wrote: post #52

zheng wrote: post #6

The keyboard trainer seems to be slightly broken, ASET != ARST and NEIO != NIOP. I'm on Win7, Chrome 23 http://i.imgur.com/cdQdj.png

Sorry about that - I was working on the CHORDMAK (Colemak-based) version at the same time and forgot to fix it. It's sorted now - thanks for the heads up!

Unrelated but I'm replying to this comment so you will hopefully see...

You guys should add a feature to your website for requesting to be added to a mailing list for information on product development, release dates, etc.

Re: Ten Finger Touch Screen Keyboard

#60

Post by pkamb » Tue, Nov 06, 2012, 9:49 PM UTC

pcl wrote: post #42

pkamb wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually a Dvorak typist myself, so it definitely works! English dictionary and Qwerty/Dvorak layout only for now.

I just downloaded the sample app. Neat stuff. Is caps-lock toggling the only way to use it in the paid app, or does the menu item turn it on and off? Do numbers and other coding-symbols get chorded in the main app? Also, is there any research into how long it takes to go from Dvorak to this sort of style?

Thanks for trying the app. How does the technique work for you? I don't have any official numbers, but it seems like many people can type 30+ words per minute with very little learning. Faster with practice.

Currently no chording for numbers or programmer symbols. Basic punctuation marks (,.:;?! etc.) are predicted at the end of words. Caps Lock is the current toggle switch, but I'll be adding a custom option in the next version.