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Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

theguardian.com

11–20 of 370 posts

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#11

Isn't it over and China owns this market anyway? How can any other country possibly compete?

By limiting imports and offering alternatives in home. Also, the myths about reliability ads a lot.

So essentially western government intervention in the economy is the only way and every company is behaving rationally by retreating until the government steps in and makes the long term math make sense for them.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#12
post #10

Weird headline: Japanese carmakers are doing the same error, while Tesla (an American company) is the one of the leading electric carmakers... I'd just replace it with Legacy Carmakers (e.g. Ford, GM, Toyota and so on).

I thought Totyota is still one of the EV leaders. Alongside Kia and Hyundai?

Not at all, they were a hybrid leader long time ago but they never had a good pure EV and are only starting last few years.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#13
post #10

Weird headline: Japanese carmakers are doing the same error, while Tesla (an American company) is the one of the leading electric carmakers... I'd just replace it with Legacy Carmakers (e.g. Ford, GM, Toyota and so on).

I thought Totyota is still one of the EV leaders. Alongside Kia and Hyundai?

Toyota barely makes any fully EV cars, and their bZ series hasn't been very great. They have a number of hybrids, but even those are often based on dated battery technology. They're still selling new cars with NiMH batteries.

They have some incredibly reliable hybrid drivetrains, but have weak EVs and ancient battery technology throughout.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#14
post #10

Weird headline: Japanese carmakers are doing the same error, while Tesla (an American company) is the one of the leading electric carmakers... I'd just replace it with Legacy Carmakers (e.g. Ford, GM, Toyota and so on).

I thought Totyota is still one of the EV leaders. Alongside Kia and Hyundai?

lol no. They have been dragged kicking and screaming into offering just one model, the bz4x.

They also spend a lot of money lobbying against electrification regulation, because they really don’t want to make EVs.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#15
I see two things discussed too little:

* in the ICE world, California and EU norms created a tight barrier to entry. the patent portfolio protected the old automotive industry. they only built their patent protected ICEs, and they bought everything else from suppliers.

  electric circumvents that barrier and that enabled dozens of new automotive OEMs:  the first big disruptor
* automotive has created amazing r&d processes for the mechanical vehicle design. they are centered around early decomposition, isolated component engineering and then composition. integration in that world men's: screwing and plugging the pets together. if the hinges and flanges are to spec things integrate nicely.

  too bad the hard part for software instead is system integration.  consistency cross all components.

  all the great hardware engineering processes are completely ND utterly misguided for software system engineering.. integrate rely, often, continuously vs clearly specified interfaces and isolated component engineering with expensive and thus relatively rare integration.


  that's IMHO the second disruption for automotive.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#16

Weird headline: Japanese carmakers are doing the same error, while Tesla (an American company) is the one of the leading electric carmakers... I'd just replace it with Legacy Carmakers (e.g. Ford, GM, Toyota and so on).

Tesla is also retreating from the being a car company, at least they don't see being a company that sells electric cars to consumers being a great business to be in long term.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#17
VAG group has EVs (and pretty good ones) across the board: VW with ID series, Škoda with Enyaq/Elroq/Epiq, Audi with eTron series (SUV, sedan and estate), SEAT with Cupra Born and others. BMW just launched Neue Klasse, with iX3 selling like hot cakesa nd i3 looking amazing, with i7 in pipeline. Mercedes also launched a great new platform with CLA which is coming to other sizes as well.

Meanwhile, Renault 5 is selling very well with Renault 4 in the pipeline. Zoes have been selling well too. Peugeot also has good EV models (208 is really fun to drive).

There pretty much isn't a single European car manufacturer that wouldn't have a compact car or an SUV in EV market and most of them have good range, decent pricing and are moving to 800V platforms as well.

Sooo... where's the retreat?

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By limiting imports and offering alternatives in home. Also, the myths about reliability ads a lot.

So essentially western government intervention in the economy is the only way and every company is behaving rationally by retreating until the government steps in and makes the long term math make sense for them.

Correct. When billions of eur involved, nothing moves without support from gov.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#20
post #17

VAG group has EVs (and pretty good ones) across the board: VW with ID series, Škoda with Enyaq/Elroq/Epiq, Audi with eTron series (SUV, sedan and estate), SEAT with Cupra Born and others. BMW just launched Neue Klasse, with iX3 selling like hot cakesa nd i3 looking amazing, with i7 in pipeline. Mercedes also launched a great new platform with CLA which is coming to other sizes as well. Meanwhile, Renault 5 is selling…

> Sooo... where's the retreat?

As the article says; "In the US"

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