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A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

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Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#261

Post by bagacrap »

frereubu wrote: post #23

> こじ箸 Kojibashi (also known as ほじり箸 hojiribashi) > To use the chopsticks to pick something out from near the bottom of the dish. I think there must be some bits that are lost in translation for some of these. This makes it sound like you can't eat all of the food in a bowl with your chopsticks.

Kinda sad for me to know this because one of my favorite things about chopsticks is their precision. I can pick exactly the piece of food I feel like eating in the next moment. This makes it sound like I'm not supposed to be picky.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#262

Post by jech »

rvba wrote: post #252
jech wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Poland has honorifics that are probably on par to those in Japan > I'm interested in learning more about this! It's very simple, actually. For strangers, you use the third person and the title « Pan » or « Pani » (Sir or Lady). You avoid pronouns, « The Lady has forgotten the Lady's purse on the table ». For friends, you use the t-form ("ty", thou), and use a diminutive rather than the full name. « Johny, you've f…

Calling someone Sir or Madam also exists in English and is nothing special. You left out most of the interesting things. For example the vocative case is partially dissapearing. Someone from Finland can actually understand this topic, since Finnish has multiple cases - more than in Polish language (meanwhile English has one case and if we try very hard we can squeeze something similar to a case - so let's say it has…

> You left out most of the interesting things. For example the vocative case is partially dissapearing.

The grammar is changing in many ways (for example, the inanimate masculine is being replaced with the animated, kroić kotleta), but this was about honorifics.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#263

Post by renewiltord »

Hasnep wrote: post #247
october8140 wrote: post #230

This is why Japan is not having kids. They are more worried about rules to make everyone’s life miserable.

Sure, and American table manners are the cause of rising fascism, there's a whole Wikipedia article on all their rules. [1] They're more worried about elbows on the table than the increase in authoritarianism. See, I can make up dumb shit too. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_manners_in_North_America

Both of you are now eligible for sociology PhDs. Congratulations, doctors, on having defended your theses.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#265

Post by technothrasher »

rglullis wrote: post #255
latexr wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the standards are there, wishing they didn't exist doesn't invalidate them But not observing them does. There are standards no one in the world follows anymore. They may still “be there”, but are only used for mocking purposes. > If a rule or standard seems silly to you, make your best attempt at understanding why people would still follow it. (Chesterton's fence) The corollary to that is that anyone who rebukes an…

I don't see anything in your responses that even remotely contradict or relate to what I said. Are you just looking for an argument here?

It seems like you are making a different point than the other posters. If the majority of a group does not follow an etiquette standard, it is reasonable to say that the group does not hold that standard. Your point that if any group holds an etiquette standard, then that standard exists is true, but is more tangential to the other point that a rebuttal of it.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#267

Post by zdc1 »

cthalupa wrote: post #4

Interesting. Some of these are big deals (particularly the ones mentioned as important) but others I have seen Japanese people in Tokyo do quite consistently. Soroebashi - not on the table, but I've seen chopsticks aligned by pushing them against the plate hundreds of time. I've also seen them used to stir miso soup, etc. plenty. Others I don't know that I would have much of an inclination to do and haven't seen but…

I assume this is one of those cases where if you're in the culture, you'll know which rules you're allowed to break (and when) vs if you're on the outside it's easiest to just follow all the rules all the time.

Reminds me of an episode on youtube of How The British Upper Class Live | Stacey Dooley Sleeps Over where the presenter eats her eggs "wrong", much to the dismay of her posh host who tells her (in his subtle British way) that she should "sort that out".

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#268

Post by masfuerte »

technothrasher wrote: post #253
ghaff wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general, upper-classish dining probably used to be more formal in the US in terms of cutlery type and placement and other things. May still be in some circles but no one I know worries about such things and even very decent restaurants don’t. And when was the last time you saw a fish fork?

My mother-in-law always used to get annoyed at me for using my knife and fork in the European manor instead of the American way. She said it was boorish. I don't know anybody else here in the US who cares in the least which way you use your knife and fork, so I always interpreted it left over behavior from her upper class DC upbringing in the 1930-40's. (I did try to explain to her that it was more related to my bein…

By American way do you mean cutting the food then transferring the fork to your right hand for eating? Or is there some other distinction?

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#269

Post by jacquesm »

rglullis wrote: post #255
latexr wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the standards are there, wishing they didn't exist doesn't invalidate them But not observing them does. There are standards no one in the world follows anymore. They may still “be there”, but are only used for mocking purposes. > If a rule or standard seems silly to you, make your best attempt at understanding why people would still follow it. (Chesterton's fence) The corollary to that is that anyone who rebukes an…

I don't see anything in your responses that even remotely contradict or relate to what I said. Are you just looking for an argument here?

What is this, abuse?

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#270

Post by jacquesm »

cthalupa wrote: post #106
cmcaleer wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if you were to do an Osaka version of this, the list would be limited to maybe 4 of these (licking, chopsticks upright in rice, passing between chopsticks, and pointing esp. toward a senior would be taboo). Whereas when I had a date with a girl from Kyoto, one of the first things that happened when we went to eat was she had to stop me from picking up my chopsticks impolitely and show me the proper way of doi…

It's always wild to me when I hear about how different the culture is between Osaka and Kyoto when they're so close.

I've had people living in the East of Durgerdam explain to me that people from the West of Durgerdam were a bit weird. For context:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/1026+CD+Durgerdam/@52.3790...

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