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Having Kids (2019)

paulgraham.com

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Re: Having Kids (2019)

#121

Post by doubled112 »

dominotw wrote: post #112
raincole wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_and_fertility > There is generally an inverse correlation between monetary income and the total fertility rate within and between nations. https://www.statista.com/statistics/241530/birth-rate-by-fam... > In 2021, the birth rate in the United States was highest in families that had under 10,000 U.S. dollars in income per year And a few thousands more links.

> How about “I love children but having kids is super expensive”? always surprises me when ppl say this when they clearly observe the opposite in action. whats going on here.

Every mouth to feed costs more. Baby formula seems like a racket. Diapers are expensive.

My oldest will need a laptop for school next year. It isn't optional or provided.

Maybe you need a bigger car because car seats take up a lot of room.

What if your kid decides they want to join a sports team? A friend of a friend told me they did the math on a year of competitive swimming. It was $10,000 by the time they were done with equipment and travel.

A trip to the dentist for my family of four is about $1000 for just cleanings. Braces for my oldest were $3000 if I could pay cash or $4000 to finance. You could skip dental care, but some might consider that neglect.

What if the school tells you to get your child tested? That costs about $3000 in my part of the world. Half of the kids on my block are neurodivergent somehow. What do you do?

In a less well off part of the world, most of these "concerns" probably disappear. I think we have pretty high expectations of parents that aren't poor.

Re: Having Kids (2019)

#123

Post by Balgair »

drfloyd51 wrote: post #14

Before kids it was easy to judge bad parents. Then one day with child I found myself due to circumstances in a store way past my child’s bedtime. She was screaming and crying, because it was way past her bedtime. Then I realized… I was now “the bad parent” I had so easily judged. Then it was easy to judge parents with children younger than mine. Until I learned that not all children have the same issues in the same o…

Before kids, you take a look around a diner or a store or a playground and you see little ones happily eating some chips or browsing the foodstuffs or playing on a slide.

You think that this is what kids are like. They sit there, they walk a little, they giggle on the playground, they look cute as all get out, etc.

Then you have kids and you know.

You know.

Those kids sitting there in the booth sipping on their milk quietly while mom and dad happily eat their lunch? Those are the top 5% most calm kids out there. The other 95% of kids are with their adults screaming and throwing fits and covered in who knows what.

Life lied to you. It did it directly to your face, unashamed. The bias is real.

Re: Having Kids (2019)

#125

Post by karmakurtisaani »

Daneel_ wrote: post #88
gib444 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I admire your frank honesty > Generally, I regret having kids Please don't ever, ever let them know this, or even allow them to figure it out. Especially before they're at least ~30 and able to begin to understand.

I would never let them think I regret them - that’s such a cruel thing to inflict upon them, and it’s certainly not their fault. I also don’t regret the joy it’s brought my wife. I regret the loss of my mental energy and personal time, but not them, if that makes sense.

For me it helped to realize that the things I would have done with the extra time and energy would not have been that great. Some occasional dopamine bursts for a very mediocre outcome. Having kids is a better investment, but a less fun one.

Re: Having Kids (2019)

#127

Post by Balgair »

throwaway77385 wrote: post #99

I wish there was a way to make this decision rationally. My wife and I are coming up to the point of no return. We either do it now, or never. Now let's try to figure this out: Do we have enough money? Yes, probably. We could survive 10 years without making another dime. I don't know what kind of safety net is recommended, but people do it with a lot less. We live in a country with free health care, so illness won't…

Having kids is like eating a mango.

You can talk to the foremost mango growers on cultivating mango trees and learn everything there is to know about making mangoes. You can consult with the best chefs about how to make the best mango dishes and desserts and learn the absolute best way to prepare and eat mangoes. You can learn from the masters of how to paint a mango so lifelike that you'd think the painting was real. Etc. You can learn and truly master everything surrounding the act of eating a mango.

But until you sink your teeth into a mango and actually eat it, you've no idea what you're talking about.

So, until you actually have the kid, all this worrying is for naught.

You will be just fine, the kid will be just fine (they have their own agency too, you know), the world will keep turning and you have the agency to put a person in it and teach them what they need to know.

The real question is if you want to eat a mango or not.

Re: Having Kids (2019)

#128

Post by mchaver »

b0rtb0rt wrote: post #86

[flagged]

> people who choose to be child free are not complete human beings

Hmm, this seems pretty condescending, but hopefully it is just in jest.

With four kids I understand there is a unique set of skills and emotions that come along with it and I am personally grateful for, but there are also a lot skills and emotions you won't have and experience if you never go to war, never become a leader, never experience losing a parent when you are young, never win a gold medal in a team sport, never live in a different culture, never volunteer, etc. It seems short sighted to claim someone is an incomplete person if they can't experience one of those things, because likely no single person can.

There is a great tapestry of human experience and we can only experience most of it second or third hand (and probably not even that in most cases).

Re: Having Kids (2019)

#129

Post by librish »

nxor2 wrote: post #117
matsemann wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One shared his own experience, the other is a direct attack on his kids and the parent. Quite a big difference. The "I pity your kids" is straight up vile.

Also ironically, you attack with the word "vile" and frame the other comment as an "attack." I can't with this site.

There's a difference between attacking an experience share and attacking an attack.

Re: Having Kids (2019)

#130

Post by knorker »

It's a well written post, but this:

> The fact is, most of the freedom I had before kids, I never used.

That just seems like close to the definition of freedom. I have the freedom to go outside right now and eat dirt. I've never used it.

If you didn't do something then I guess you didn't want to, more than the things you did choose to do instead.

The only way you'd have enough life to do "most" of the things you'd be free to do, is if you're not free to do but a tiny thing.

> See what I did there?

Yup. Made no sense at all, is what. A UAE passport makes you free to visit 181 countries either visa free or visa-on-arrival. It's still freedom even if you don't take the time to visit all 181 countries.

It's not even an interesting paradox. It's just an obvious part of freedom.

Most people don't visit more than 35 countries. An Afghanistan passport gives you access to 35 countries.

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