Cursor can't compete with Claude Code's subsidized pricing, so they are trying to gaslight people that their cheap model is good enough.
Cursor Composer 2 is just Kimi K2.5 with RL
31–40 of 180 posts
Re: Cursor Composer 2 is just Kimi K2.5 with RL
#32Cursor is mostly an IDE / coding-agent harness company. So it probably makes sense for them not to train their own base model, but instead license something like Kimi and fine-tune it for their own harness and workflows. Their moat looks pretty thin. A VSCode fork with an open-source LLM fork on top. In the fast-moving coding-agent market, it’s not obvious they keep their massive valuation forever.
> Their moat looks pretty thin. Their value is in the data they've collected and are collecting. Usage, acceptance rate, and all the connected signals. Plus having a large userbase where they can A / B test any finetune they create.
There were conversations in the team yesterday about how Cursor's cloud agents are still ahead of Claude from a UX perspective.
Obviously we're running both, using the right tool for the job.
There is stickiness there from being early. That will be hard to replicate.
Re: Cursor Composer 2 is just Kimi K2.5 with RL
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, this is pretty clear-cut. There's even a great alternative, namely GLM-5, that does not have such a clause (and other alternatives besides) so it feels a bit problematic that they would use Kimi 2.5 and then disregard that advertisement clause.
I've replied down the thread, but there are ways to go around that clause entirely, even if it would be enforceable. The obvious way is to have another company do the modification.
The worthwhile question AIUI is whether AI weights are even protected by human copyright. Note that firms whose "core" value is their proprietary AI weights don't even need this (at least AIUI) since they always can fall back on "they are clearly protected against misappropriation, like a trade secret". It becomes more interesting wrt. openly available AI models.
Re: Cursor Composer 2 is just Kimi K2.5 with RL
#34Looks like two Moonshot employees confirmed that it's not licensed before Moonshot made the decision to get out of the debate and delete their posts [0][1]. [0] https://chainthink.cn/zh-CN/news/113784276696010804 - may have originally been https://x.com/apples_jimmy/status/2034920082602864990 [1] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HD2Ky9jW4AAAe0Y?format=jpg&name=...
TBH they really shouldn't have posted such a tweet in the first place, just sit back and watch their license enforced by the Internet.
I had the question "how do you even enforce this weird license term" back then, I guess I know the answer now.
Re: Cursor Composer 2 is just Kimi K2.5 with RL
#35Cursor is mostly an IDE / coding-agent harness company. So it probably makes sense for them not to train their own base model, but instead license something like Kimi and fine-tune it for their own harness and workflows. Their moat looks pretty thin. A VSCode fork with an open-source LLM fork on top. In the fast-moving coding-agent market, it’s not obvious they keep their massive valuation forever.
> Their moat looks pretty thin. Their value is in the data they've collected and are collecting. Usage, acceptance rate, and all the connected signals. Plus having a large userbase where they can A / B test any finetune they create.
That's every harness including VC Code Copilot.
People home about Teams sucking, but its market share is several times that of Slack because of distribution.
I guarantee that Microsoft has even more data.
Re: Cursor Composer 2 is just Kimi K2.5 with RL
#36Cursor Composer 1 was Qwen and this is Kimi. IDE is based on VSCode. The entire company is build on packaging open source and reselling it. Ollama is also doing this. There is so much money to be made repackaging open source these days. So funny to see Twitter go wild saying "a 50 person team just beat Anthropic" blah blah.
> packaging open source and reselling it. It's a bit more than that. They have plenty of data to inform any finetunes they make. I don't know how much of a moat it will turn out to be in practice, but it's something. There's a reason every big provider made their own coding harness.
Can anyone enlighten me how having a coding harness when for most customers you say "we won't train on your code" helps you do RL? What's the data that they rely on? Is it the prompts and their responses?
Re: Cursor Composer 2 is just Kimi K2.5 with RL
#37Cursor Composer 1 was Qwen and this is Kimi. IDE is based on VSCode. The entire company is build on packaging open source and reselling it. Ollama is also doing this. There is so much money to be made repackaging open source these days. So funny to see Twitter go wild saying "a 50 person team just beat Anthropic" blah blah.
Do you know what Qwen model Composer 1.5 used?
Re: Cursor Composer 2 is just Kimi K2.5 with RL
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
> packaging open source and reselling it. It's a bit more than that. They have plenty of data to inform any finetunes they make. I don't know how much of a moat it will turn out to be in practice, but it's something. There's a reason every big provider made their own coding harness.
Can anyone enlighten me how having a coding harness when for most customers you say "we won't train on your code" helps you do RL? What's the data that they rely on? Is it the prompts and their responses?
I guess they rely on many people not toggling privacy-mode on?
Re: Cursor Composer 2 is just Kimi K2.5 with RL
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is on their website... "Is Kimi K2.5 open source?" "Yes, Kimi K2.5 is an open source AI model. Developers and researchers can explore its architecture, build new solutions, and experiment openly. Model weights and code are publicly available on Hugging Face and the official GitHub repository." https://www.kimi.com/ai-models/kimi-k2-5
4th paragraph in license block Our only modification part is that, if the Software (or any derivative works thereof) is used for any of your commercial products or services that have more than 100 million monthly active users, or more than 20 million US dollars (or equivalent in other currencies) in monthly revenue, you shall prominently display "Kimi K2.5" on the user interface of such product or service.
That's not an open source license, then.
Re: Cursor Composer 2 is just Kimi K2.5 with RL
#40A question. I’m due for a yearly Cursor subscription renewal, how does the credit limit look like?
Currently I’ve not hit any of the limits despite using it quite rigorously, I wonder if this will change with a renewal?