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Cursor Composer 2 is just Kimi K2.5 with RL

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Re: Cursor Composer 2 is just Kimi K2.5 with RL

#21

Post by lmc »

deaux wrote: post #13

Looks like two Moonshot employees confirmed that it's not licensed before Moonshot made the decision to get out of the debate and delete their posts [0][1]. [0] https://chainthink.cn/zh-CN/news/113784276696010804 - may have originally been https://x.com/apples_jimmy/status/2034920082602864990 [1] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HD2Ky9jW4AAAe0Y?format=jpg&name=...

This is on their website...

"Is Kimi K2.5 open source?"

"Yes, Kimi K2.5 is an open source AI model. Developers and researchers can explore its architecture, build new solutions, and experiment openly. Model weights and code are publicly available on Hugging Face and the official GitHub repository."

https://www.kimi.com/ai-models/kimi-k2-5

Re: Cursor Composer 2 is just Kimi K2.5 with RL

#22

Post by mohsen1 »

Cursor Composer 1 was Qwen and this is Kimi. IDE is based on VSCode. The entire company is build on packaging open source and reselling it.

Ollama is also doing this.

There is so much money to be made repackaging open source these days.

So funny to see Twitter go wild saying "a 50 person team just beat Anthropic" blah blah.

Re: Cursor Composer 2 is just Kimi K2.5 with RL

#23

Post by NitpickLawyer »

gillesjacobs wrote: post #7

Cursor is mostly an IDE / coding-agent harness company. So it probably makes sense for them not to train their own base model, but instead license something like Kimi and fine-tune it for their own harness and workflows. Their moat looks pretty thin. A VSCode fork with an open-source LLM fork on top. In the fast-moving coding-agent market, it’s not obvious they keep their massive valuation forever.

> Their moat looks pretty thin.

Their value is in the data they've collected and are collecting. Usage, acceptance rate, and all the connected signals. Plus having a large userbase where they can A / B test any finetune they create.

Re: Cursor Composer 2 is just Kimi K2.5 with RL

#24

Post by NitpickLawyer »

antirez wrote: post #20
charcircuit wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kimi K2.5 was released under a modified MIT license (100M+ MAU or $20M+ MRR has to prominently display Kimi K2.5). It will be fine.

Basically this is true for most startups in the world BUT Cursor, so here you are kinda inverting the logic of the matter. Cursor is at a size that, if they wanted to use K2.5, they could clearly state that it was K2.5 or get a license to avoid saying it.

IF we assume that the modified MIT clause is enforceable. And if we assume Cursor Inc. is running the modification. It could very well be the case that Cursor Research LTD is doing the modifications and re-licensing it to Cursor Inc. That would make any clause in the modified MIT moot.

Re: Cursor Composer 2 is just Kimi K2.5 with RL

#25

Post by zozbot234 »

NitpickLawyer wrote: post #15
justindotdev wrote: post #5

im pretty sure this is in violation of moonshot's ToS. this is going to be fun to watch unfold

There is no ToS at play here. There's only the license[1], which is MIT modified like so: > Our only modification part is that, if the Software (or any derivative works thereof) is used for any of your commercial products or services that have more than 100 million monthly active users, or more than 20 million US dollars (or equivalent in other currencies) in monthly revenue, you shall prominently display "Kimi K2.5"…

Yes, this is pretty clear-cut. There's even a great alternative, namely GLM-5, that does not have such a clause (and other alternatives besides) so it feels a bit problematic that they would use Kimi 2.5 and then disregard that advertisement clause.

Re: Cursor Composer 2 is just Kimi K2.5 with RL

#26

Post by NitpickLawyer »

mohsen1 wrote: post #22

Cursor Composer 1 was Qwen and this is Kimi. IDE is based on VSCode. The entire company is build on packaging open source and reselling it. Ollama is also doing this. There is so much money to be made repackaging open source these days. So funny to see Twitter go wild saying "a 50 person team just beat Anthropic" blah blah.

> packaging open source and reselling it.

It's a bit more than that. They have plenty of data to inform any finetunes they make. I don't know how much of a moat it will turn out to be in practice, but it's something. There's a reason every big provider made their own coding harness.

Re: Cursor Composer 2 is just Kimi K2.5 with RL

#29

Post by NitpickLawyer »

zozbot234 wrote: post #25
NitpickLawyer wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no ToS at play here. There's only the license[1], which is MIT modified like so: > Our only modification part is that, if the Software (or any derivative works thereof) is used for any of your commercial products or services that have more than 100 million monthly active users, or more than 20 million US dollars (or equivalent in other currencies) in monthly revenue, you shall prominently display "Kimi K2.5"…

Yes, this is pretty clear-cut. There's even a great alternative, namely GLM-5, that does not have such a clause (and other alternatives besides) so it feels a bit problematic that they would use Kimi 2.5 and then disregard that advertisement clause.

I've replied down the thread, but there are ways to go around that clause entirely, even if it would be enforceable. The obvious way is to have another company do the modification.

Re: Cursor Composer 2 is just Kimi K2.5 with RL

#30

Post by saidmukhamad »

lmc wrote: post #21
deaux wrote: post #13

Looks like two Moonshot employees confirmed that it's not licensed before Moonshot made the decision to get out of the debate and delete their posts [0][1]. [0] https://chainthink.cn/zh-CN/news/113784276696010804 - may have originally been https://x.com/apples_jimmy/status/2034920082602864990 [1] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HD2Ky9jW4AAAe0Y?format=jpg&name=...

This is on their website... "Is Kimi K2.5 open source?" "Yes, Kimi K2.5 is an open source AI model. Developers and researchers can explore its architecture, build new solutions, and experiment openly. Model weights and code are publicly available on Hugging Face and the official GitHub repository." https://www.kimi.com/ai-models/kimi-k2-5

4th paragraph in license block

Our only modification part is that, if the Software (or any derivative works thereof) is used for any of your commercial products or services that have more than 100 million monthly active users, or more than 20 million US dollars (or equivalent in other currencies) in monthly revenue, you shall prominently display "Kimi K2.5" on the user interface of such product or service.

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