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An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

openttd.org

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Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#111

Post by 20k »

eykanal wrote: post #54
999900000999 wrote: post #17

This is beyond reasonable. You can still download it for free outside of Steam. If I make a Sonic fan game and Sega is like, you can keep it online, but just not on Steam, that’s nice. In this situation you still have the option of playing it on Steam for a modest price The alternative is the Nintendo route…

Fully agree, and glad you posted this. Atari has no responsibility to the open source community, and indeed has every reason to push back against this effort. That they're willing to discuss things at all, and that they agree to help support the effort, is frankly astonishing and extremely kind-hearted.

At the same time, the open source community has absolutely no responsibility to make Atari profits here either. The outcome here is simply that open source is getting screwed over

It isn't kind hearted. Them trying to shut down openttd would lead to a gigantic clusterfuck that would hurt their sales. This is them trying to remove a direct competitor to them releasing a new game as much as possible, without generating community backlash - to maximise profits

These companies are not our friends

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#112

Post by JoshTriplett »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #102
JoshTriplett wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thing is, they own it. No, they don't. They own the game data, and the original game engine. They don't own the reimplemented Open Source game engine. OpenTTD did not have to do anything here. It sounds like they had a very positive interaction with Atari, in which Atari is providing them with some support and collaboration, and in exchange for that, OpenTTD agreed to formalize the requirement for "you need to own…

Though it's no longer a clone, it literally was a clone when it first started (you were even supposed to supply your own totally legitimately acquired asset packs). So it'd be pretty much impossible to claim the engine came about as a clean room implementation. And of course, even if maybe they could win a court case (honestly don't think they could) the mere threat of one would likely make openttd quit.

> you were even supposed to supply your own totally legitimately acquired asset packs

I don't have the impression that OpenTTD encouraged or sanctioned obtaining those assets illegitimately. They talked about how to extract them from the original game that you owned.

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#113

Post by mikkupikku »

Seems reasonable to me. Back when I started playing OpenTTD, about 20 years ago, you had to provide your own data files from your ostensibly legal copy of TTD. They changed that after they started distributing free alternative graphics, but to be frank the strict legal status of both OpenTTD and OpenRCT2 has always seemed mildly dubious to me, on account of both projects being based off disassembled code. Atari is being fairly reasonable and gentlemenly about this.

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#114

Post by blizdiddy »

maybewhenthesun wrote: post #40
Lammy wrote: post #3

> a compromise would be needed to balance Atari’s commercial interests (which of course they are entitled to pursue as the rights holder) No, fuck 'em. They had nothing to do with developing the game, and in a sane copyright structure a thirty-year-old work would be public domain by now.

> in a sane copyright structure You are not wrong. But alas we don't have that. ANd in the reality we live in this collaboration is way better than the alternative.

We know what the law is… the law is bullshit.

Is it easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism?

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#115

Post by 20k »

Closi wrote: post #30
jorl17 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that, while it is a rewrite, it was done so through disassembling the original game, not via a clean room implementation. I find this particularly relevant given that the original was written (mostly) in assembly too.

Also even if it is a ground up rewrite, the look and feel still matters. Try creating a 1:1 dupe of a Hermes bag or a Rolex and see how their legal team reacts (even if you call it an OpenBirk)

Clean room reimplementations of software projects have been tested in court and are legally fine

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#116

Post by ndiddy »

singpolyma3 wrote: post #79
eykanal wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully agree, and glad you posted this. Atari has no responsibility to the open source community, and indeed has every reason to push back against this effort. That they're willing to discuss things at all, and that they agree to help support the effort, is frankly astonishing and extremely kind-hearted.

"no responsibility" but they could have chosen not to intentionally hurt them

Imagine if you were Atari. You've bought the rights to Transport Tycoon Deluxe from Chris Sawyer and want to sell the game up on Steam. Then you see OpenTTD (the exact same game except better in every way) also on Steam for free. What do you do?

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#118

Post by designerarvid »

anthk wrote: post #55
designerarvid wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reproducing someone’s intellectual property and publishing it is exactly what constitutes a copyright violation. You can retype someone’s book with your keyboard, it’s still not yours.

Learn something new, dear GenZers: https://osgameclones.com/ Maybe you all realize how much brainwashed from corporations yall actually are.

GenZ?

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#119

Post by NietTim »

CivBase wrote: post #7

> we have not been “pressured” by Atari to make these changes. > Atari approached us to explain their plans for the Transport Tycoon Deluxe re-release, and what it might mean for OpenTTD. > we understood that a compromise would be needed to balance Atari’s commercial interests […] against the availability of a free, well-developed evolution of the game. Sounds to me like you were pressured by Atari to make these chan…

There is no way not to, OpenTTD has 0 cards to play since everything is explicitly build on IP that is not theirs, and they know it. They were "not pressured" because Atari didn't utter threats to them, it didn't need to come to that because the OpenTTD people were reasonable, and so was Atari.

Not sure why so many commenters are failing to grasp this.

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#120

Post by NietTim »

singpolyma3 wrote: post #92
IshKebab wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they're saying Atari didn't threaten them but they both understood that they could have. Honestly it sounds like Atari were trying to be nice. Like "you technically aren't allowed to do that, and we could just set our lawyers on you, but we'd like to not do that while also making money on our re-release". This seems like a perfectly reasonable compromise to me.

How is "I haven't talked to my lawyer yet but you know I could" not a threat/pressure?

There is no reason to assume they said that and all the reason to assume they didn't say that.
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