Live data from Hacker News

Denmark was reportedly preparing for full-scale war with the US over Greenland

bsky.app

311–320 of 660 posts

Re: Denmark was reportedly preparing for full-scale war with the US over Greenland

#311
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm of pretty mixed feelings about this. It certainly strengthened Europe's collective defense priorities and awareness. That response happens to include NATO but primarily because Europe is too weak without NATO. Europe used to be full of world powers and now they collectively can't manage collective defense without the US? There's something very learned-helplessness about that. And yes, it certainly has served Amer…

Europe's weakness is mostly in their heads. The US is the most powerful military in the world, but the second most powerful military is NATO without the US. If the rest of NATO pulls together and reorganises into an effective military that doesn't depend on the US, it would be a force to be reckoned with. Europe could easily defeat Russia without outside help (look at how well Ukraine is doing with far less!), but we…

> Europe could easily defeat Russia without outside help (look at how well Ukraine is doing with far less!)

Ukraine has received unbelieviable levels of aid from NATO, esp. the US.

10000+ Javelin missiles, WW3 levels of cluster munitions that were slated to be decommissioned in the US, multiple factories in the EU making shells that go straight to the AFU (e.g. Bulgarian 152mm), etc.

there is no way they'd have made it 6+ months let alone 4 years without the US' heavy backing.

Re: Denmark was reportedly preparing for full-scale war with the US over Greenland

#312
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuremberg style judicial proceedings. Not necessarily with similar judicial executions. Fair trials and fair and exemplary punitive measures would be enough for me. I lost respect when Obama let Bush Jr administration off the hook. It essentially set the tone that it is ok to behave like that, that there would be no consequences.

nah the world needs to see there are consequences, and that the US can be trusted to follow through on them. this kind of corruption and extortion, if in China, would see executions, e.g. https://nordictimes.com/world/china-executes-senior-official...

Death sentences worry me because they are irreversible and can be abused and they have been, see Pakistan, Bangladesh.

At most, old Singapore style corporeal punishment added to the mix perhaps.

Re: Denmark was reportedly preparing for full-scale war with the US over Greenland

#313
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US wouldn’t even need to “attack” Greenland. What is there to even attack? 50 Danish soldiers? They could just say “that’s ours”, ignore whatever Europe says, and start doing whatever they wanted to do and instead force the EU to attack American forces or civilian business interests. I’m not suggesting this is a good idea or anything but there’s a ton of other ways that something like this could play out which in…

> What power has the US ceded? Seriously? You live in a multi-polar world, there are three major power blocks and Europe isn't one of them, though that may change now (we're sick of war, but we're also sick of the threat of war, which one of the two will win out is up for grabs). There is - or rather, was, by now - Russia, China and the USA. Russia is unacceptable for many reasons, China is too clever for its own goo…

> You live in a multi-polar world, there are three major power blocks and Europe isn't one of them, though that may change now (we're sick of war, but we're also sick of the threat of war, which one of the two will win out is up for grabs). There is - or rather, was, by now - Russia, China and the USA. Russia is unacceptable for many reasons, China is too clever for its own good in the longer term and the United States was historically our ally.

We live in a multi-polar world. Sure. But I disagree with your assertion that there are three major power blocks. The US and China are the only two. Europe has a decent sized and advanced economy but it lacks military power and is politically fragmented and always will be. China is building military power but lacks the ability and will to project that power. Manufacturing and economic powerhouse rivaling the United States. No doubt about that.

Russia isn't a pole in this world. As President Obama said back in the 2010s I believe "Russia is a nuclear armed gas station". That was true then, and it's still true today.

> The United States has thrown away 80 years or so of very carefully and very expensively built up soft power because someone didn't understand the concept (apparently just like you).

Well, I don't think this is true for one. And secondly if it takes just a year or so to throw away that power then it was just a matter of time until the EU got mad at the US for doing something and threw it away anyways.

> You throw that away at your peril and because Russia is in no way capable of capitalizing on that the Chinese are.

What soft power is the Chinese capitalizing on? Is it their support for Russia and supplying money, weapons, and equipment for their war in Ukraine? Or is it the soft power they had in Venezuela, Cuba, and Iran that they have just lost because of US military action?

> I wouldn't be surprised at all if in a decade or two the US$ is no longer the reserve currency. It could happen a lot faster than that. The US economy is teetering on the edge of the abyss and if you think that your ability to project power isn't diminished then maybe by the end of the Iran war you'll get it.

The US ability to project power isn't being diminished by the Iran war, only being exercised. Talking heads for some reason think that when you launch an aerial assault against a country that is amassing ballistic missiles, drones (which they build and sell to Russia to go bomb innocent Ukrainians), and more that it should be over within 24 hours and that the enemy shouldn't be able to fight back. It's unrealistic.

Nevermind Iran launching these missiles at civilian targets in countries throughout the Middle East. I get the argument that if you hose a US military base that the base is a target, but there's no excuse for attacking civilian apartment complexes and such.

It also misses the fact that, we've seen this movie before with North Korea. Except if Iran gets a nuclear weapon they also have control over your oil supply and it would kick off a nuclear arms race in the region because Saudi Arabia and others certainly aren't going to let Iran be the only one with nuclear weapons.

These are tough problems to deal with, and from the sidelines it's easy to think about how simple the solution is or point out all the mistakes, but the alternative headline here is the US does nothing, all of these Middle Eastern countries get nuclear bombs, Iran loads up on ballistic missiles, and then who knows exactly what will happen? Do they nuke Israel and Israel nukes them back? Do they extract a toll on oil passing through the Straight of Hormuz like they are as of today declaring they will do?

Re: Denmark was reportedly preparing for full-scale war with the US over Greenland

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, what is absurd is the number of people that can't wait to go back to a world with endless wars of conquest. We already know what that looks like. If you have never seen war up close then I am happy to forgive you, but trust me, in 'actual war' there is no possibility of success for anybody, there are only degrees of damage and degrees of grief and illusions to the contrary are focused on the few people that manag…

I'm sorry but you are not interacting with the rational suppositions of posters in various threads here. No one is arguing for a war except you. People are explaining to you the strategic reality and you are espousing rhetoric that I honestly can't decipher. 1. Denmark cannot win militarily 2. You are suggesting Denmark would not capitulate and indeed enter into a state of war What do you think happens in this situat…

Denmark cannot win militarily, but can the US? What war has the US won recently? They're great at destroying things, but not at winning. There's nothing for them to win in Greenland. It's an indefensible chunk of ice. They can kill the people who live there, but what would that gain them?

Meanwhile they stand to lose a lot. There have been many NATO exercises that showed US aircraft carriers to be vulnerable to European submarines, so they can't park their fleet too close. They have to fly between NATO members Canada and Iceland. How would soldiers feel if they're forced to fight all their former allies? How would the US citizens feel?

Re: Denmark was reportedly preparing for full-scale war with the US over Greenland

#315
post #3

Of course they were. The United States has never before damaged its own reputation in Europe as much as they did in the last 12 months. And the same goes for Canada, possibly worse. You don't go around threatening your allies unless you really have plans and that's why you don't elect senile old guys to positions of power.

The only way the US can fix our reputation will be to try and imprison our current leadership after they are eventually removed from power. And in particular, the Trump family needs to have all of its assets seized.

It was very obvious that Trump is a highly corrupt and incompetent person at the second term election. His voters do not disappear when he is in prison, neither would the US reputation suddenly be way better. Who will these people elect next, why should anyone trust the US anymore?

Imprisonment would be a good starting point though. Together with education, regulation and reforming the political system. But this takes decades.

Re: Denmark was reportedly preparing for full-scale war with the US over Greenland

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are mistaking the battle for the war: Denmark / EU would no doubt lose the BATTLE for Greenland. Within hours. But the sun would rise the next day and the USA won't like the 'non-kinetic' consequences. Too many to enumerate. Eventually the adults in USA would just return it.

No it would be a point of no return. But the "non-kinetic" consequences would go both ways. It's not an exercise we should entertain, though the EU needs to step up in a very serious way and spend billions of Euros adding new equipment to Greenland to beef up detection and defense.

EU has more arctic warfare equipment than USA does, USA doesn't do much arctic warfare so the war would likely be much more expensive for USA than EU.

Most regular equipment doesn't work in -40C temperatures, to take Greenland USA would need to develop more arctic enabled weaponry just for that.

Re: Denmark was reportedly preparing for full-scale war with the US over Greenland

#317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So much soft power has been lost. The worst part to me feels like US has lost trust and such soft power loss is irrecoverable no matter what happens now :/ A common statement I hear from people, or maybe its just what I think, but its like "How can we trust US after this" and hey mind you, Trump still has 3 years in office, but even if political parties change, how can we trust the whole system for not having anoth…

I am equally dismayed at recent US behavior; but this is a short sighted view. 1. Geopolitics is always unpredictable. Maybe the US has been unreliable lately, but the idea that there are states out there which have been bastions of reliability is not historically accurate. All great powers have screwed people over or made disastrous decisions. It’s mostly just the US’s turn now. 2. This all happened 20 years ago wit…

I do agree with some of your points and I believe some aspects of it might be right but there is a big difference between the past and present because this time, its America attacking EU sovereignity/other countries and so many things all at once literally within less than a year.

Just count all the things that america did in the last year and try to imagine as a foreigner or foreign nation once as an exercise. All of the things that America has done in the past year is just quite so much to list here even.

No amount of charm within a president might fix or make the people of denmark/EU/even the world, forget the greenland crisis and many others.

This is fundamentally different, in my opinion.

> 3. Which leads me to my third point, which is that most foreigners understand that the American government is separate from the people and separate from the corporations. And more importantly, changing the world system dramatically is really hard, and has a lot of friction. It will be a lot easier for states to go back to the pre-2024 status quo than to embark upon something entirely novel.

Yea, we do but we can only tolerate so much at a certain point too. This goes to my point again but we are forgetting that US is still voted by its people. Yes the two party system corners the people and we are sympathetic of that, but the world/foreigners (atleast me) sympathesize with the american citizens but at the same time, can't trust them.

This isn't something even foreigner related issue but the people of America themselves don't trust their fellow neighbours now as I read the comments of this post and many others.

We sympathize with the people of America but sadly, the world doesn't trust America anymore, Trust is quite brittle and delicate thing so its quite an miracle we still saw trust bounce so many times but right now the glass of trust has shattered (as evident by Denmark preparing for almost war against America)

I can be wrong, I usually am but that's just my understanding.

Re: Denmark was reportedly preparing for full-scale war with the US over Greenland

#318
post #225
post #3

Of course they were. The United States has never before damaged its own reputation in Europe as much as they did in the last 12 months. And the same goes for Canada, possibly worse. You don't go around threatening your allies unless you really have plans and that's why you don't elect senile old guys to positions of power.

[flagged]

[dead]

Re: Denmark was reportedly preparing for full-scale war with the US over Greenland

#319
post #225
post #3

Of course they were. The United States has never before damaged its own reputation in Europe as much as they did in the last 12 months. And the same goes for Canada, possibly worse. You don't go around threatening your allies unless you really have plans and that's why you don't elect senile old guys to positions of power.

[flagged]

Spoken like someone who is utterly clueless about international relations.

And then there were those Romans, what have they ever done for us?

Re: Denmark was reportedly preparing for full-scale war with the US over Greenland

#320
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way the US can fix our reputation will be to try and imprison our current leadership after they are eventually removed from power. And in particular, the Trump family needs to have all of its assets seized.

Imprison based on what and seize assets based on what exactly? You not liking the administration is not a valid reason for asset seizure

Who cares? Just stop enforcing laws on little guys completely, if you can't even think of what to put any of the US admin members on trial for. It's nuts that there are long complicated trials and TV series and movies about like a single person murdering one other person, yet people ask what we could even try nutjobs that murder and kill by thousands and/or support mass crimes all around the world for. Let alone all the financial crimes that are being perpetarated for sure, with all the crypto scams and insider trading on the insane volatility they themselves create and know in advance about.
Post reply on HN