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FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

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Re: FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

#131

Post by inetknght »

cheriot wrote: post #107
lmeyerov wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple and Google are facilitating the data sales Specifically, these big companies revenue share with app companies who in turn increase monetization via selling your private information, esp via free apps. In exchange for Apple etc super high app store rake percentage fees, they claim to run security vetting programs and ToS that vet who they do business with and tell users & courts that things are safe, even when t…

I'm game for throwing rocks at Apple and Google, but I don't get this one. > consumer apps embed ad SDKs → those SDKs feed location signals into RTB ad exchanges → surveillance-oriented firms sit in the RTB pipeline and harvest bid request data even without winning auctions Would you ban ad supported apps? Assuming the comment you're responding to is realistic, I'm not sure how the OS is to blame.

> Would you ban ad supported apps?

Yes, I absolutely would. Advertisements are a scourge upon people's wellbeing on top of being ugly and intrusive.

If you want to build a free product, that's great. Build a free product.

If you want to make money from your product, then charge for your product.

Re: FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

#132

Post by autoexec »

pocksuppet wrote: post #106
FL4TLiN3 wrote: post #20

Who's selling the data is the far more serious issue here. Behind this is a remarkably well-structured syndicate. The supply chain looks something like this: consumer apps embed ad SDKs → those SDKs feed location signals into RTB ad exchanges → surveillance-oriented firms sit in the RTB pipeline and harvest bid request data even without winning auctions → that data flows to aggregators who don't have any direct relat…

All of it is legal, and incentivised. Is it any surprise?

US companies don't even care if something is illegal as long as they know the slap on the wrist they get will be a small fraction of they money they made with crime. Most of the time the US government just wants a cut of the action. Google alone has spent billions in fines.

Re: FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

#133

Post by autoexec »

hedora wrote: post #129
autoexec wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cloudflare is more everywhere than facebook

Yeah, but unlike facebook, they weren't just caught making videos of people having sex then paying people to watch the videos. Also, unlike facebook, they also weren't just caught running a dark money lobbyist network with the goal of forcing more collection of minors' private information.

facebook is evil for many different reasons, but for a government looking to spy on its own citizens cloudflare is much more attractive target. That said, I have no doubt that they're collecting copious amounts of data from both companies, either by sale or by force.

Re: FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

#134

Post by NewsaHackO »

inetknght wrote: post #131
cheriot wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm game for throwing rocks at Apple and Google, but I don't get this one. > consumer apps embed ad SDKs → those SDKs feed location signals into RTB ad exchanges → surveillance-oriented firms sit in the RTB pipeline and harvest bid request data even without winning auctions Would you ban ad supported apps? Assuming the comment you're responding to is realistic, I'm not sure how the OS is to blame.

> Would you ban ad supported apps? Yes, I absolutely would. Advertisements are a scourge upon people's wellbeing on top of being ugly and intrusive. If you want to build a free product, that's great. Build a free product. If you want to make money from your product, then charge for your product.

>Yes, I absolutely would.

And then you will get fired by the end of day.

Re: FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

#135

Post by pat2man »

Terr_ wrote: post #101
pnw wrote: post #92

Nobody has explained to me how iOS ad SDKs across different apps can track individual users given that there hasn't been an accessible GUID on iOS for many years now.

Enough location data becomes effectively unique: There is likely only one phone in the world that averages over X nighttime hours in my apartment-complex and averages over Y workday-hours in the the same office block where I work. That kind of pattern can be used to determine that two or more different app-identities are the same person, and anybody buying that data has a strong incentive to try it.

Which I guess is what iCloud private relay solves. But only if you pay.

Re: FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

#136

Post by hnburnsy »

wittyusername wrote: post #29
FL4TLiN3 wrote: post #20

Who's selling the data is the far more serious issue here. Behind this is a remarkably well-structured syndicate. The supply chain looks something like this: consumer apps embed ad SDKs → those SDKs feed location signals into RTB ad exchanges → surveillance-oriented firms sit in the RTB pipeline and harvest bid request data even without winning auctions → that data flows to aggregators who don't have any direct relat…

I find myself uninstalling every app unless I really need it and use it. It's amazing how many apps just sit around in your life over time. get them off your phone

> I find myself uninstalling every app unless I really need it and use it. It's amazing how many apps just sit around in your life over time. get them off your phone

That's the thing they don't just sit around, they all have run at start up and for Android I blame Google for not giving users the ability to block run at start up.

Re: FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

#137

Post by autoexec »

hobs wrote: post #43
FL4TLiN3 wrote: post #20

Who's selling the data is the far more serious issue here. Behind this is a remarkably well-structured syndicate. The supply chain looks something like this: consumer apps embed ad SDKs → those SDKs feed location signals into RTB ad exchanges → surveillance-oriented firms sit in the RTB pipeline and harvest bid request data even without winning auctions → that data flows to aggregators who don't have any direct relat…

We can hold both accountable actually, its a workaround of our fourth amendment rights and also it should be illegal to do this for the companies involved.

Explicitly outlawing the practice is good, but since they've already been participating in the violation of our rights and knowingly profiting from it there should be consequences.

I'd be perfectly fine with going after companies that sell data to the government, but I don't think it would be fair to go after companies who were forced to hand data over unwillingly, even if they didn't inform the public it was going on out of fear of reproductions.

Re: FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

#138

Post by autoexec »

mogwire wrote: post #39
nomel wrote: post #10

The supreme court had a 5-4 decision related to this [1]. Was there something specific, in that decision, that leaves a loophole open? [1] https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-402_h315.pdf

> Carpenter v. United States (2018) was a landmark Supreme Court case that held the government generally needs a warrant to access historical cell-site location information (CSLI) from cell phone carriers, as its acquisition constitutes a Fourth Amendment search This is very different from buying your data from a company especially when the user consented to their location being tracked. Too many people in these thre…

> Too many people in these threads jumping to anti-Trump when the real issue is how quick we are to give up our our privacy

Both things are very real problems.

Re: FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

#139

Post by inetknght »

NewsaHackO wrote: post #134
inetknght wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would you ban ad supported apps? Yes, I absolutely would. Advertisements are a scourge upon people's wellbeing on top of being ugly and intrusive. If you want to build a free product, that's great. Build a free product. If you want to make money from your product, then charge for your product.

>Yes, I absolutely would. And then you will get fired by the end of day.

Luckily I don't work for an ad-supported business.

Re: FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

#140

Post by autoexec »

deathanatos wrote: post #127
paulryanrogers wrote: post #114

Isn't this is just a naked reach around the 4th amendment?!

Yes. But AFAIK, not an unconstitutional one. Wyden agrees with you: > Wyden said buying information on Americans without obtaining a warrant was an “outrageous end-run around the Fourth Amendment,” America needs privacy laws for this reason (or an amendment, but good luck ). Vote when November rolls around; the other piece is finding Democrats that will take an actual stance on privacy closer to Wyden's.

I think that the problem is that it absolutely does violate the constitution, we just have judges willing to defend it and say otherwise even when it clearly allows for exactly what the fourth amendment was intended to prevent.
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