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FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

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Re: FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

#101

Post by Terr_ »

pnw wrote: post #92

Nobody has explained to me how iOS ad SDKs across different apps can track individual users given that there hasn't been an accessible GUID on iOS for many years now.

Enough location data becomes effectively unique: There is likely only one phone in the world that averages over X nighttime hours in my apartment-complex and averages over Y workday-hours in the the same office block where I work.

That kind of pattern can be used to determine that two or more different app-identities are the same person, and anybody buying that data has a strong incentive to try it.

Re: FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

#102

Post by GeekyBear »

lmeyerov wrote: post #34
FL4TLiN3 wrote: post #20

Who's selling the data is the far more serious issue here. Behind this is a remarkably well-structured syndicate. The supply chain looks something like this: consumer apps embed ad SDKs → those SDKs feed location signals into RTB ad exchanges → surveillance-oriented firms sit in the RTB pipeline and harvest bid request data even without winning auctions → that data flows to aggregators who don't have any direct relat…

Apple and Google are facilitating the data sales Specifically, these big companies revenue share with app companies who in turn increase monetization via selling your private information, esp via free apps. In exchange for Apple etc super high app store rake percentage fees, they claim to run security vetting programs and ToS that vet who they do business with and tell users & courts that things are safe, even when t…

Apple doesn't even allow apps to know whose device they are running on without the user's explicit opt-in permission.

Just as importantly, apps aren't allowed to remove functionality if the user says no.

You need additional permissions to do things like access location data or scan local networks for device fingerprinting.

Re: FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

#103

Post by SamuelAdams »

mogwire wrote: post #39
nomel wrote: post #10

The supreme court had a 5-4 decision related to this [1]. Was there something specific, in that decision, that leaves a loophole open? [1] https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-402_h315.pdf

> Carpenter v. United States (2018) was a landmark Supreme Court case that held the government generally needs a warrant to access historical cell-site location information (CSLI) from cell phone carriers, as its acquisition constitutes a Fourth Amendment search This is very different from buying your data from a company especially when the user consented to their location being tracked. Too many people in these thre…

Modern vehicles make disabling data collection fairly difficult. And even if it is disabled, there is no guarantee data is not being sent despite your user settings.

I would love for investigative groups to target the auto industry’s data collection practices and have meaningful legislation created and implemented as a result.

Re: FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

#104

Post by dylan604 »

samrus wrote: post #79
FL4TLiN3 wrote: post #20

Who's selling the data is the far more serious issue here. Behind this is a remarkably well-structured syndicate. The supply chain looks something like this: consumer apps embed ad SDKs → those SDKs feed location signals into RTB ad exchanges → surveillance-oriented firms sit in the RTB pipeline and harvest bid request data even without winning auctions → that data flows to aggregators who don't have any direct relat…

I think the pipeline needs to be plugged at both ends. We shouldnt allow this data to be sold without express consent. And we shouldnt allow the government to purchase this sort of data regardless of consent, protected under the 4th amendment. unless, iguess, express consent is given to be used by the government for investigative purposes, which no one would give since they dont have to under the 5th amendment

> And we shouldnt allow the government to purchase this sort of data regardless of consent

Fine, we'll force companies to allow a small little box to be added to their data center. Don't worry about what it does, but you cannot disconnect network/power to it once it is installed. Once it is operational, you'll no longer need to think about it ever again, and we recommend that you don't. You should also not talk about this box to users/customers/clients. In fact, you'd be better off if you didn't talk to your employees about it either.

Re: FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

#105

Post by dylan604 »

wittyusername wrote: post #29
FL4TLiN3 wrote: post #20

Who's selling the data is the far more serious issue here. Behind this is a remarkably well-structured syndicate. The supply chain looks something like this: consumer apps embed ad SDKs → those SDKs feed location signals into RTB ad exchanges → surveillance-oriented firms sit in the RTB pipeline and harvest bid request data even without winning auctions → that data flows to aggregators who don't have any direct relat…

I find myself uninstalling every app unless I really need it and use it. It's amazing how many apps just sit around in your life over time. get them off your phone

The greatest part of reading HN is finding out that my distrust of apps and their developers is not weird. It does make me question my abilities as a dev for refusing to partake in these reindeer games. Clearly, I am not the right type of person to do well in big tech.

Re: FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

#106

Post by pocksuppet »

FL4TLiN3 wrote: post #20

Who's selling the data is the far more serious issue here. Behind this is a remarkably well-structured syndicate. The supply chain looks something like this: consumer apps embed ad SDKs → those SDKs feed location signals into RTB ad exchanges → surveillance-oriented firms sit in the RTB pipeline and harvest bid request data even without winning auctions → that data flows to aggregators who don't have any direct relat…

All of it is legal, and incentivised. Is it any surprise?

Re: FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

#107

Post by cheriot »

lmeyerov wrote: post #34
FL4TLiN3 wrote: post #20

Who's selling the data is the far more serious issue here. Behind this is a remarkably well-structured syndicate. The supply chain looks something like this: consumer apps embed ad SDKs → those SDKs feed location signals into RTB ad exchanges → surveillance-oriented firms sit in the RTB pipeline and harvest bid request data even without winning auctions → that data flows to aggregators who don't have any direct relat…

Apple and Google are facilitating the data sales Specifically, these big companies revenue share with app companies who in turn increase monetization via selling your private information, esp via free apps. In exchange for Apple etc super high app store rake percentage fees, they claim to run security vetting programs and ToS that vet who they do business with and tell users & courts that things are safe, even when t…

I'm game for throwing rocks at Apple and Google, but I don't get this one.

> consumer apps embed ad SDKs → those SDKs feed location signals into RTB ad exchanges → surveillance-oriented firms sit in the RTB pipeline and harvest bid request data even without winning auctions

Would you ban ad supported apps? Assuming the comment you're responding to is realistic, I'm not sure how the OS is to blame.

Re: FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

#108

Post by ryandrake »

samrus wrote: post #79
FL4TLiN3 wrote: post #20

Who's selling the data is the far more serious issue here. Behind this is a remarkably well-structured syndicate. The supply chain looks something like this: consumer apps embed ad SDKs → those SDKs feed location signals into RTB ad exchanges → surveillance-oriented firms sit in the RTB pipeline and harvest bid request data even without winning auctions → that data flows to aggregators who don't have any direct relat…

I think the pipeline needs to be plugged at both ends. We shouldnt allow this data to be sold without express consent. And we shouldnt allow the government to purchase this sort of data regardless of consent, protected under the 4th amendment. unless, iguess, express consent is given to be used by the government for investigative purposes, which no one would give since they dont have to under the 5th amendment

Don't forget the initial collection. Nobody is forcing these app developer to link the HarvestCustomerLocation.lib module to their app. They're doing it voluntarily, likely financially incentivized. Don't let them off the hook.

Re: FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

#109

Post by ryandrake »

lukeschlather wrote: post #77

I'd really like to just have legislation to treat location data like audio or video under wiretapping provisions. If you collect my location info and convey it to a third party without my consent or a reasonable good-faith belief that I would consent, that ought to be treated similarly to recording without consent. And consent needs to be granted explicitly for each party that might get access to my location, you can…

> or a reasonable good-faith belief that I would consent

Don't deliberately write a loophole. No need for this part.

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