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Trevor Milton is raising funds for a new jet he claims will transform flying

wsj.com

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Re: Trevor Milton is raising funds for a new jet he claims will transform flying

#61

Post by chneu »

etempleton wrote: post #12

In my experience, people who are compulsive liars or those who are willing to make large or repeated deceptions for personal gain never change. It is as natural to them as breathing. Some of them I am quite convinced believe their lies, but the net result is the same. I don't know Trevor Milton. I have never met him. Maybe he isn't a compulsive liar but just got in over his head and was trying to make it work. But I…

They believe other people are doing it and by not doing it they are selling themselves short.

Theyre not exactly wrong

Re: Trevor Milton is raising funds for a new jet he claims will transform flying

#62

Post by jongjong »

busyant wrote: post #58
jongjong wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy is a crook. Every adjective you could use to describe this guy goes against my core values.

I suspect the person you replied to was being subtly sarcastic. edit: but honestly, I'm not sure.

It's hard for me to tell because I've seen this multiple times in my career (in tech). People wasting investors' money getting funding over and over while those actually building stuff get suppressed.

I swear there are some people who control a lot of money who are just having fun ruining people's lives for laughs.

There are people who spend years working for some company, betting their career on it but it turns out the whole thing was some kind of inside joke.

My view is that some companies are basically somebody's toy and the employees are part of the entertainment like a personal reality TV show for some rich person so they can play-act as a hotshot entrepreneur.

Probably it serves as some kind of inflation control mechanism. If you have a lot of money and want to spend it without driving inflation, you have to find things with extreme diminishing returns and you have to invest in people who value such things.

Re: Trevor Milton is raising funds for a new jet he claims will transform flying

#63

Post by gaoshan »

game_the0ry wrote: post #18

I struggle to understand the psychology of how founders who are clearly incompetent charlatans get second+ chances -- they couldn't do fraud successfully but investors have a faith they could do business successfully. But they still get funding (like adam neumann of wework fame) and full on "narrative tongue baths" by the business media community (like this wsj article on trevor milton). Why? I struggle to understand…

Charisma and connections are pretty much all it takes. Really only connections are needed but since these people are coming back from being exposed they need charisma to assuage the concerns of their connections.

Re: Trevor Milton is raising funds for a new jet he claims will transform flying

#64

Post by enoint »

madeofpalk wrote: post #45
game_the0ry wrote: post #18

I struggle to understand the psychology of how founders who are clearly incompetent charlatans get second+ chances -- they couldn't do fraud successfully but investors have a faith they could do business successfully. But they still get funding (like adam neumann of wework fame) and full on "narrative tongue baths" by the business media community (like this wsj article on trevor milton). Why? I struggle to understand…

I recently invested a small amount of money in an early stage company where I had to declare I was either a 'high net worth individual' or a 'sophisticated investor'. The mutually exclusive clause seemed important to me.

In the US, we have this class called “accredited investor”

Re: Trevor Milton is raising funds for a new jet he claims will transform flying

#65

Post by game_the0ry »

elzbardico wrote: post #22
game_the0ry wrote: post #18

I struggle to understand the psychology of how founders who are clearly incompetent charlatans get second+ chances -- they couldn't do fraud successfully but investors have a faith they could do business successfully. But they still get funding (like adam neumann of wework fame) and full on "narrative tongue baths" by the business media community (like this wsj article on trevor milton). Why? I struggle to understand…

Having a great exit is the golden dream for VCs. But having founders that raise lots of money also have a value in itself even if the business fails in the long run.

But you also have to build a business with the money you raise, or else you kill your reputation along the way.

Re: Trevor Milton is raising funds for a new jet he claims will transform flying

#66

Post by game_the0ry »

nradov wrote: post #56
exogeny wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a great Money Stuff blurb about that w/r/t Adam Neumann. I can't find it to quote it directly, but the gist was that if you disabuse yourself of the notion that Neumann was playing a game of entrepreneurship and good-faith empire building, and instead conclude that the game he was playing was shameless capital extraction, every step and action he took suddenly makes sense. The truly amazing thing, especiall…

Some of those sophisticated investors are also engaged in shameless capital extraction. Their investment thesis is based on the "Greater Fool Theory": they're gambling that they can dump the inflated assets on another bag holder before it blows up.

But they might end being the bag holder themselves. And is the reputational risk worth it? I would say - no.

Re: Trevor Milton is raising funds for a new jet he claims will transform flying

#67

Post by seanhunter »

notlenin wrote: post #40
some_random wrote: post #14

Just for once I want "CEO convicted of fraud making their comeback" to come back with some really boring business. Like, I want Elizabeth Holmes to serve out her sentence then come out swinging to raise funds to vertically integrate pallet construction.

I feel like part of the secret to being that type of CEO is that whatever your business is, you can spin it into something "oh my god, much wow". Like it won't be just "vertically integrating pallet construction", it'll be "a heartwarming revolution in the construction of pallets, now with AI and blockchain". Kind of like how TFA mentions that Milton's new SyberJet will "pioneer AI flight".

Exhibit A: Adam Neuman, who somehow convinced people that office rental + shitty app that didn't work was "The first physical social network" and therefore deserved a tech company valuation.

And to be clear he's not been convicted of fraud, he walked away from the cash bonfire with over a billion dollars.

Re: Trevor Milton is raising funds for a new jet he claims will transform flying

#69

Post by seanhunter »

notlenin wrote: post #47
josefritzishere wrote: post #23

I cannot fathom the thinking of any party investing in the new company of a convicted fraudster.

> In August [2022], it was announced that Andreessen Horowitz had invested in Neumann's new residential real-estate company, Flow. source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Neumann

Not only did they invest, but if I'm not mistaken, at the time that was the biggest single check that Andreessen Horowitz had ever written. It's completely baffling to me.

Re: Trevor Milton is raising funds for a new jet he claims will transform flying

#70

Post by seanhunter »

ttubrian wrote: post #11
JoshGG wrote: post #6

Says a lot about whether you can trust the WSJ.

'We Can Trust You Now' is a quote in the story from the subject. The subject himself claims: “I walk into meetings now, and I’ll get high-fives from the most wealthy people in the world,” he said. “They’re like, ‘Welcome to the club. You can withstand the fire. We can trust you now.’” The WSJ interviewed him and is reporting information about his past. I think the article portrays him as extremely shady and untrustwo…

And pretty much rule number 1 is if someone says "you can trust me" you cant' trust them. Trustworthy people generally don't need to say things like that.
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