How To Be A Successful (African) American in Silicon Valley • Hacker News Board

Re: How To Be A Successful (African) American in Silicon Valley

#41

Post by guylhem » Mon, Nov 05, 2012, 4:37 AM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #34

guylhem wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO, it may be a contradiction - there is no need for any specific program to encourage some specific group (even if one is a member of a given group, and could take advantage of the program for profit in the short run, because one don't get better in the long run by having it easier it the short run) I can't say anything about paypal - I wasn't there, and I don't like to pass judgements. But if they indeed were tha…

I have to disagree with you there. Plenty of examples of poor kids getting into the NBA these days, but coding requires your parents to have enough cash to buy you a proper PC with development tools or a Mac. There are HS BB coaches, but very few programming mentors in the poor or rural areas. Heck, teaching programming went the way of vocational programs. It was once different, but that door closed hard.

Poor kids get into the NBA because they invest a lot into their physical training and game abilities. You know the 10'000 hours rule.

A ball may be less expansive than a computer, but a free access to a public library and following online programming courses is even less expansive.

IMHO, the only real difference is peer acceptance of an investment in sport, which still ranks much higher (socially) than investing time in computers and learning.

Re: How To Be A Successful (African) American in Silicon Valley

#42

Post by guylhem » Mon, Nov 05, 2012, 4:39 AM UTC

Anechoic wrote: post #32

guylhem wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO, it may be a contradiction - there is no need for any specific program to encourage some specific group (even if one is a member of a given group, and could take advantage of the program for profit in the short run, because one don't get better in the long run by having it easier it the short run) I can't say anything about paypal - I wasn't there, and I don't like to pass judgements. But if they indeed were tha…

it's even more open than the NBA because the judge is the market Interesting, I have the exact opposite viewpoint - I can see the result of a software project, but I have very little insight into the contributions behind the scenes. In sports, I (and the rest of the world) can see the contributions of the atheltes and judge merit for ourselves. For example, I know the new iOS maps have problems, but (aside from press…

We do have opposite viewpoints because I see the one man company or consultant as the closest ideal to a meritocracy.

But still +1'ing for this very interesting opinion - because you're right, in a company which more than 1 employee it's hard to judge the individual performance.

Re: How To Be A Successful (African) American in Silicon Valley

#43

Post by guylhem » Mon, Nov 05, 2012, 4:46 AM UTC

colmvp wrote: post #29

guylhem wrote: post #16

Excellent article, full of excellent thoughts and ideas. I hope it'll remain frontpage material to clear some misrepresentations. "Heard Yeezy was racist, well, I guess that’s on one basis, I only like green faces." I guess I'm like Kanye then: I'm green-biased, because in the end, that's the only thing that matter - profits :-) "Underrepresentation does not equal racism" is also a great idea to cite - who cares abou…

Well it depends. Your argument about too few white players is a little misleading. Lots of white athletes go into other professional sports (football, baseball, hockey, soccer). On the flipside, it's pretty hard for Latin American, African American, and Asian Americans to be full-time actors as most American shows/movies cast Caucasian Americans. Doesn't matter how good an actor the individual is if they are excluded…

that is a real problem however, and sometime made worse by the instance of the public that the actor ethnicity matches the character. That's stupid, considering most of the traditional stories have very few non whites (ok, there's Othello, but that's a bit short!)

It's not just racism - more like a weird expectation that's hard to understand. I remember reading something (about Rhianna IIRC) not being black enough to portrait some civil rights leader.

WTF??? We live in a diverse society. I couldn't care less whether the actor of ethnicity A should be supposed to play a character I know or suppose to be of ethnicity B - as long as he's good, who cares?

It might even make a better story (ex: Romeo must Die vs Romeo & Juliet)

Re: How To Be A Successful (African) American in Silicon Valley

#44

Post by aptwebapps » Mon, Nov 05, 2012, 6:17 AM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #35

colmvp wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it depends. Your argument about too few white players is a little misleading. Lots of white athletes go into other professional sports (football, baseball, hockey, soccer). On the flipside, it's pretty hard for Latin American, African American, and Asian Americans to be full-time actors as most American shows/movies cast Caucasian Americans. Doesn't matter how good an actor the individual is if they are excluded…

I had a buddy (Native American) who spent a lot of his acting career playing VC. Probably didn't make Asian Americans too happy.

You meant Viet Cong, right? I spent quite a while trying to figure out how venture capitalists fit into that.

Re: How To Be A Successful (African) American in Silicon Valley

#45

Post by physcab » Mon, Nov 05, 2012, 6:30 AM UTC

guylhem wrote: post #16

Excellent article, full of excellent thoughts and ideas. I hope it'll remain frontpage material to clear some misrepresentations. "Heard Yeezy was racist, well, I guess that’s on one basis, I only like green faces." I guess I'm like Kanye then: I'm green-biased, because in the end, that's the only thing that matter - profits :-) "Underrepresentation does not equal racism" is also a great idea to cite - who cares abou…

> Is there white resentment about having too few white players in the NBA?

This is like saying is there black resentment for lower graduation or employment rates. There's quite a bit of evidence that the stereotype that white men can't play basketball significantly reduces ther chance at succeeding at the professional level. If the resentment is there, it manifests itself at a subconscious level that no one, not even the "victim" is aware of.

Re: How To Be A Successful (African) American in Silicon Valley

#46

Post by anigbrowl » Mon, Nov 05, 2012, 7:07 AM UTC

drumdance wrote: post #33

raganwald wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Underrepresentation does not equal racism" is also a great idea to cite - who cares about one's representation? It does not 'equal' racism, but then again I don't want to even use the word "racism" in a discussion unless I'm 100% confident everybody agrees on the definition. All too often in discussions like this, I encounter people who have their own pet definitions for the meaning of words like "equality" and "f…

I think "racism" is a really toxic word. Just hearing the word, I think of Klan rallies, Bull Connor with firehoses, lynch mobs etc. So when somebody accuses some one else of racism, it seems ridiculous because no sane person alive supports those things. And if you are called a racist, it's natural to get defensive. The words "prejudice" and "bias," however, are not nearly as emotionally charged, and it's possible to…

it seems ridiculous because no sane person alive supports those things

I wish that were true.

Re: How To Be A Successful (African) American in Silicon Valley

#47

Post by anigbrowl » Mon, Nov 05, 2012, 7:11 AM UTC

randallsquared wrote: post #36

majormajor wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the last line made me think: why do I hate the idea of the All-American Basketball Alliance[1], but support programs to increase diversity in software? But it's not a contradiction: I have seen nothing to lead me to believe that a talented player of any race will not get a fair chance in the NBA. It's all about winning, but the opportunity is there for everyone. So isn't SV all about winning too? Yes, it is—but we…

Uniformity of culture would presumably increase quality and speed of communication, and remove needless distraction from the process of producing. I can definitely see why even a company committed to diversity of gender, race, religion, and so on would want to hire only those who "fit the company culture".

'Presumably' = 'I have no evidence'. It's just as likely to increase groupthink, with disastrous consequences.

Re: How To Be A Successful (African) American in Silicon Valley

#48

Post by flyinRyan » Mon, Nov 05, 2012, 9:13 AM UTC

guylhem wrote: post #40

raganwald wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Underrepresentation does not equal racism" is also a great idea to cite - who cares about one's representation? It does not 'equal' racism, but then again I don't want to even use the word "racism" in a discussion unless I'm 100% confident everybody agrees on the definition. All too often in discussions like this, I encounter people who have their own pet definitions for the meaning of words like "equality" and "f…

> I care deeply about removing obstacles to equal representation Depending on the costs to removing such obstacles (if there are any), I might agree (ie if it's cheap enough), but even then I have my doubts about mandatory equality and the danger it represent for efficiency. Humans being are a different bunch, with their own interest and abilities. I don't want to have "equal representation" in something I suck at/do…

You have a point, but you go too far. Even in the US, there is no equal opportunity. Just because you, as a white male, don't see any problems for a minority to have the same chances you do does not make this the reality.

It is a tricky subject to be sure, and I too would be nervous about how to actually deal with this problem instead of doing "feel good" work (i.e. "nothing is fixed but we feel that we're doing something!").

I guess my take would be that small businesses be exempt from most rules as they're too small to make a huge impact anyway and are not very likely to ever get very big. Large companies, on the other hand aren't efficient anyway so it's fine to impose all sorts of things on them while trying to address the very real inequality problems.

Re: How To Be A Successful (African) American in Silicon Valley

#49

Post by flyinRyan » Mon, Nov 05, 2012, 9:21 AM UTC

guylhem wrote: post #27

majormajor wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the last line made me think: why do I hate the idea of the All-American Basketball Alliance[1], but support programs to increase diversity in software? But it's not a contradiction: I have seen nothing to lead me to believe that a talented player of any race will not get a fair chance in the NBA. It's all about winning, but the opportunity is there for everyone. So isn't SV all about winning too? Yes, it is—but we…

IMHO, it may be a contradiction - there is no need for any specific program to encourage some specific group (even if one is a member of a given group, and could take advantage of the program for profit in the short run, because one don't get better in the long run by having it easier it the short run) I can't say anything about paypal - I wasn't there, and I don't like to pass judgements. But if they indeed were tha…

I'm afraid you're glasses are a bit too rosy. It's true that while you're still at home you could start your own company. But some people don't get that inspiration until a bit later in life. Once you have a wife and kids, you cannot make a business unless you get funding. So if people who give funding are racist (I have no idea if they are) then minorities have less chance.

So at the very beginning anyone has a chance. But once you have some responsibilities white males still have a lot of opportunity to make their own business and other groups may not.

Re: How To Be A Successful (African) American in Silicon Valley

#50

Post by ari_elle » Mon, Nov 05, 2012, 10:56 AM UTC

Great article indeed!

During all of the arguments he made i couldn't help but think about the "lack of successful women in tech/business"-discussion that is - i guess - currently going on not only in my country.

1) Underrepresentation does not equal racism

or bias against women

2) News reports are focusing on the wrong part of the story and there are many women very successful already

3) Greed trumps gender

And also when he mentions possible solutions:

-) Increase the pipeline

Exactly. Often many women in my classes were very good at maths/science, yet only very few went on to really study something like maths/science or something strongly business-related.