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How To Be A Successful (African) American in Silicon Valley

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Re: How To Be A Successful (African) American in Silicon Valley

#31

Post by azakai »

anewguy wrote: post #24
slurgfest wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "academic party line"? The university system is not a party (let alone a communist party). Phrases like "denying privilege" are not general to all of academia, they are specific to certain people. What is your interest in portraying all academics as people who deliver lectures in denying privilege (or whatever)? Leave the people who develop knowledge and disseminate it for the rest of society alon…

I have never heard an academic in a race-studies, Sociology, or Communications department seriously grapple with criticisms of the "systemic racism" hypothesis for the white/black performance gap, and nor have I heard any other hypothesis offered. Students and professors outside those departments dutifully recite the same theories. As far as I can see, academia is a den of groupthink and cultural Marxism when it come…

Steven Pinker is a highly influential academic who criticizes positions like "underrepresentation implies discrimination". See for example his best-seller The Blank Slate (2002).

Re: How To Be A Successful (African) American in Silicon Valley

#32

Post by Anechoic »

guylhem wrote: post #27
majormajor wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the last line made me think: why do I hate the idea of the All-American Basketball Alliance[1], but support programs to increase diversity in software? But it's not a contradiction: I have seen nothing to lead me to believe that a talented player of any race will not get a fair chance in the NBA. It's all about winning, but the opportunity is there for everyone. So isn't SV all about winning too? Yes, it is—but we…

IMHO, it may be a contradiction - there is no need for any specific program to encourage some specific group (even if one is a member of a given group, and could take advantage of the program for profit in the short run, because one don't get better in the long run by having it easier it the short run) I can't say anything about paypal - I wasn't there, and I don't like to pass judgements. But if they indeed were tha…

it's even more open than the NBA because the judge is the market

Interesting, I have the exact opposite viewpoint - I can see the result of a software project, but I have very little insight into the contributions behind the scenes. In sports, I (and the rest of the world) can see the contributions of the atheltes and judge merit for ourselves.

For example, I know the new iOS maps have problems, but (aside from press leaks) I don't have a lot of insight into who did what. On the other hand, I know from watching Knicks games last season that Jeremy Lin was the real deal. I know the result of the 2012 Super Bowl (Giants beat Patriots) and I also saw the contribution of the team members (for example, Tom Brady throwing a perfect pass to Wes Welker at he end of the game that Welker dropped).

I've always see athletics as the closest ideal to a meritocracy that we have in our society.

Re: How To Be A Successful (African) American in Silicon Valley

#33

Post by drumdance »

raganwald wrote: post #28
guylhem wrote: post #16

Excellent article, full of excellent thoughts and ideas. I hope it'll remain frontpage material to clear some misrepresentations. "Heard Yeezy was racist, well, I guess that’s on one basis, I only like green faces." I guess I'm like Kanye then: I'm green-biased, because in the end, that's the only thing that matter - profits :-) "Underrepresentation does not equal racism" is also a great idea to cite - who cares abou…

> "Underrepresentation does not equal racism" is also a great idea to cite - who cares about one's representation? It does not 'equal' racism, but then again I don't want to even use the word "racism" in a discussion unless I'm 100% confident everybody agrees on the definition. All too often in discussions like this, I encounter people who have their own pet definitions for the meaning of words like "equality" and "f…

I think "racism" is a really toxic word. Just hearing the word, I think of Klan rallies, Bull Connor with firehoses, lynch mobs etc. So when somebody accuses some one else of racism, it seems ridiculous because no sane person alive supports those things. And if you are called a racist, it's natural to get defensive.

The words "prejudice" and "bias," however, are not nearly as emotionally charged, and it's possible to interrogate the situation more rationally.

He gives the example of Arrington not knowing any black entrepreneurs. I highly doubt it's because he's a member of the KKK. However, it's extremely possible that he has unconscious biases that make it less likely he will meet or remember black entrepreneurs.

If you accept that hypothesis for a moment, you can start brainstorming solutions. But if you just say he's a racist, the only solution is to stop hating people of color. What?!

Re: How To Be A Successful (African) American in Silicon Valley

#34

Post by protomyth »

guylhem wrote: post #27
majormajor wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the last line made me think: why do I hate the idea of the All-American Basketball Alliance[1], but support programs to increase diversity in software? But it's not a contradiction: I have seen nothing to lead me to believe that a talented player of any race will not get a fair chance in the NBA. It's all about winning, but the opportunity is there for everyone. So isn't SV all about winning too? Yes, it is—but we…

IMHO, it may be a contradiction - there is no need for any specific program to encourage some specific group (even if one is a member of a given group, and could take advantage of the program for profit in the short run, because one don't get better in the long run by having it easier it the short run) I can't say anything about paypal - I wasn't there, and I don't like to pass judgements. But if they indeed were tha…

I have to disagree with you there. Plenty of examples of poor kids getting into the NBA these days, but coding requires your parents to have enough cash to buy you a proper PC with development tools or a Mac. There are HS BB coaches, but very few programming mentors in the poor or rural areas. Heck, teaching programming went the way of vocational programs. It was once different, but that door closed hard.

Re: How To Be A Successful (African) American in Silicon Valley

#35

Post by protomyth »

colmvp wrote: post #29
guylhem wrote: post #16

Excellent article, full of excellent thoughts and ideas. I hope it'll remain frontpage material to clear some misrepresentations. "Heard Yeezy was racist, well, I guess that’s on one basis, I only like green faces." I guess I'm like Kanye then: I'm green-biased, because in the end, that's the only thing that matter - profits :-) "Underrepresentation does not equal racism" is also a great idea to cite - who cares abou…

Well it depends. Your argument about too few white players is a little misleading. Lots of white athletes go into other professional sports (football, baseball, hockey, soccer). On the flipside, it's pretty hard for Latin American, African American, and Asian Americans to be full-time actors as most American shows/movies cast Caucasian Americans. Doesn't matter how good an actor the individual is if they are excluded…

I had a buddy (Native American) who spent a lot of his acting career playing VC. Probably didn't make Asian Americans too happy.

Re: How To Be A Successful (African) American in Silicon Valley

#36

Post by randallsquared »

majormajor wrote: post #25
guylhem wrote: post #16

Excellent article, full of excellent thoughts and ideas. I hope it'll remain frontpage material to clear some misrepresentations. "Heard Yeezy was racist, well, I guess that’s on one basis, I only like green faces." I guess I'm like Kanye then: I'm green-biased, because in the end, that's the only thing that matter - profits :-) "Underrepresentation does not equal racism" is also a great idea to cite - who cares abou…

So the last line made me think: why do I hate the idea of the All-American Basketball Alliance[1], but support programs to increase diversity in software? But it's not a contradiction: I have seen nothing to lead me to believe that a talented player of any race will not get a fair chance in the NBA. It's all about winning, but the opportunity is there for everyone. So isn't SV all about winning too? Yes, it is—but we…

Uniformity of culture would presumably increase quality and speed of communication, and remove needless distraction from the process of producing. I can definitely see why even a company committed to diversity of gender, race, religion, and so on would want to hire only those who "fit the company culture".

Re: How To Be A Successful (African) American in Silicon Valley

#37

Post by majormajor »

randallsquared wrote: post #36
majormajor wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the last line made me think: why do I hate the idea of the All-American Basketball Alliance[1], but support programs to increase diversity in software? But it's not a contradiction: I have seen nothing to lead me to believe that a talented player of any race will not get a fair chance in the NBA. It's all about winning, but the opportunity is there for everyone. So isn't SV all about winning too? Yes, it is—but we…

Uniformity of culture would presumably increase quality and speed of communication, and remove needless distraction from the process of producing. I can definitely see why even a company committed to diversity of gender, race, religion, and so on would want to hire only those who "fit the company culture".

Sure, it sounds plausible that it would do that, but then I think about if my hobbies and work code interact at all, and it just hasn't happened. Have you seen it yourself? The software business has its own jargon, and in my experience it's entirely divorced from non-computer-related hobbies.[1] I played a lot of videogames in the past, but I've never used a videogame metaphor in describing a programming problem or requirement to a coworker. I've played and watch a ton of sports, but similarly that's never come up. And none of my coworkers with other interests (for instance, D&D, which I've only played once myself) have ever described stuff in those terms.

[1] If someone didn't have as much technical background or interest in the job itself, that's one thing, but when it comes to liking to go hiking vs liking to play board games? Is it really going to make a difference?

Re: How To Be A Successful (African) American in Silicon Valley

#38

Post by raganwald »

drumdance wrote: post #33
raganwald wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Underrepresentation does not equal racism" is also a great idea to cite - who cares about one's representation? It does not 'equal' racism, but then again I don't want to even use the word "racism" in a discussion unless I'm 100% confident everybody agrees on the definition. All too often in discussions like this, I encounter people who have their own pet definitions for the meaning of words like "equality" and "f…

I think "racism" is a really toxic word. Just hearing the word, I think of Klan rallies, Bull Connor with firehoses, lynch mobs etc. So when somebody accuses some one else of racism, it seems ridiculous because no sane person alive supports those things. And if you are called a racist, it's natural to get defensive. The words "prejudice" and "bias," however, are not nearly as emotionally charged, and it's possible to…

I wrote something emotionally charged on HN a while back. I honestly don't remember what I wrote, but I remember that another contributor replied something along the lines of "That metaphor/phrase/word sucks all the oxygen out of the discussion."

Re: How To Be A Successful (African) American in Silicon Valley

#39

Post by raganwald »

randallsquared wrote: post #36
majormajor wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the last line made me think: why do I hate the idea of the All-American Basketball Alliance[1], but support programs to increase diversity in software? But it's not a contradiction: I have seen nothing to lead me to believe that a talented player of any race will not get a fair chance in the NBA. It's all about winning, but the opportunity is there for everyone. So isn't SV all about winning too? Yes, it is—but we…

Uniformity of culture would presumably increase quality and speed of communication, and remove needless distraction from the process of producing. I can definitely see why even a company committed to diversity of gender, race, religion, and so on would want to hire only those who "fit the company culture".

The word "presumably" is the kicker. To "presume" is to "Take for granted in the absence of proof to the contrary." So, if you don't have any proof that barring people who use a word like "hoops" is bad, you take it for granted that it's good.

Somebody else can also go ahead and presume that in a company that is in the business of converting human capital into money, diversity of culture can bring new perspectives and ideas that may lead to higher performance. In the absence of proof to the contrary, they'd be taking their own biases for granted as well.

In the end, I'm not particularly impressed by the idea that company culture trumps the ability to perform the job in an exemplary fashion. As a long-time manager, I pride myself on getting results from people who have the necessary baseline skills to perform. In my former life as a Director of Development, I can't imagine saying to the President, "Sorry, but the reason we're slipping deadlines is that we can't hire enough qualified people. And thanks for that referral, but although he aced everything technically, he's a basketball player rather than a cyclist or rock climber, and worse, he used a word typical of basketball players. So that's why we're going to lose some money this quarter."

I don't play golf, but if you do and you're amazing, you're hired and one day you may be managing me and dropping hints that I ought to hit a few buckets of balls on the range. I'm ok with that :-)

Re: How To Be A Successful (African) American in Silicon Valley

#40

Post by guylhem »

raganwald wrote: post #28
guylhem wrote: post #16

Excellent article, full of excellent thoughts and ideas. I hope it'll remain frontpage material to clear some misrepresentations. "Heard Yeezy was racist, well, I guess that’s on one basis, I only like green faces." I guess I'm like Kanye then: I'm green-biased, because in the end, that's the only thing that matter - profits :-) "Underrepresentation does not equal racism" is also a great idea to cite - who cares abou…

> "Underrepresentation does not equal racism" is also a great idea to cite - who cares about one's representation? It does not 'equal' racism, but then again I don't want to even use the word "racism" in a discussion unless I'm 100% confident everybody agrees on the definition. All too often in discussions like this, I encounter people who have their own pet definitions for the meaning of words like "equality" and "f…

> I care deeply about removing obstacles to equal representation

Depending on the costs to removing such obstacles (if there are any), I might agree (ie if it's cheap enough), but even then I have my doubts about mandatory equality and the danger it represent for efficiency.

Humans being are a different bunch, with their own interest and abilities. I don't want to have "equal representation" in something I suck at/don't care about, because it would bring less efficiency.

I guess if you follow your idea, you start campaigning for the size of NBA players to reflect the natural gaussian of the population - and then their weight too.

But 5' 200 lbs players might be less efficient and make the matches less interesting.

> > Profits are what matters

> To you. Not to me. Or at least, not more than equality of opportunity.

Then we have differing opinions. Equal opportunities exist. Equal representation is a slippery slope. It will damage efficiency and profits.

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