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Honda is killing its EVs

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Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#641

Post by maxglute »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #99
putlake wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mining isn't the only bottleneck with rare earths. There also the processing, which is an industry China has monopolized through sustained investments over decades. They have also improved processing efficiency through investments in technology. It's going to take a while for anyone else to catch up.

> There also the processing, which is an industry China has monopolized through sustained investments over decades. I don't think this is the right way to characterize it. China invested when other countries didn't, but they didn't monopolize the market, they have no moat beyond expertise and some tech advancement that could be replicated easily enough. The only moat they have is related perseverance and other countr…

>they have no moat beyond expertise and some tech advancement that could be replicated easily enough

Moat is decades of process / tactic knowledge built by disproportionate amount of talent on geologic formations others didn't invest in. Right now they generate 15x mining graduates, university of mining tech alone enrolls more than all US mining programs combined. Then you throw all that into a mining city like Batou with 3 million people running vertically integrated operation. That's ecosystem scale with compounded advantages beyond "wanting" to put work in, it maybe scale on PRC has demonstrated ability to produce.

Between shallow kiddy pool and Mariana Trencth in terms of ease of replication, I wouldn't lean towards kiddy pool. I don't think "right way to characterize" their lead is "no moat" beyond... all the things that are actually, in fact very deep moats, as if any country can persevere their way to replicate decades of work and execute industrial policy of a 3 million large city dedicated to mining/rees.

I surmise, PRC will build out EUV (technical problem) and produce them at scale before west+co meaningfully tackles HREEs supply chain (technical and regulatory and industrial problem).

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#642

Post by orthecreedence »

speedgoose wrote: post #170
travismark wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

trick question. all three

You don’t like active safety features ? Even if you think you are great and better than most, don’t you think it would be neat that the other drivers you share the roads with have active safety features ? So they don’t crash into you or run over your kids?

One time I gently left my lane to slightly move into the (empty) opposing lane as I passed a cyclist who was on a narrow shoulder. The lane assist thankfully corrected my clearly idiotic move by taking the wheel and swerving the car towards the cyclist, who the car probably thought was a terrorist or something. Luckily I fought the "correction" and managed to save myself the inconvenience of cleaning cyclist guts off my windshield at the next gas station.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#643

Post by sham1 »

dalmo3 wrote: post #563
achierius wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you're fighting the same enemy on a dozen battlefields, you won't stand a chance of winning until you understand that fact and go after the root cause.

Because enshittification wouldn't happen in a centrally-planned economy? What's the basis of this?

This feels to me like a false dichotomy. The only alternative to the current way of doing things isn't a planned command economy, no matter what "libertarians" or tankies might argue.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#644

Post by orthecreedence »

abhinavk wrote: post #631
phito wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a lot of places, most of your electricity is generated by burning coal and gas.

Which are a lot more efficient than an ICE.

Is burning the coal, delivering the electricity, and storing it in a battery that's then converted to mechanical motion more efficient than an ICE? What are the losses in delivery and storage?

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#645

Post by einr »

kazinator wrote: post #72

> The large battery in an EV makes it easier to feed powerful computers, and it allows things like over-the-air updates to happen when the car is parked and “off.” I don't want anything of the sort as a consumer, so auto makers who don't "get" it either are fine by me. Nay, heroes.

Also, lol, "the large battery in an EV makes it easier to feed powerful computers". Do they not think an internal combustion engine can power a few ARM chips? What could the total power consumption of all the computer equipment in a car be, like 30-50 watts? 200 horsepower is 147 kW.

Even the point about running computers when the car is off seems wildly uninformed: a 12 V starter battery in an ICE car is about 70 Ah. That’s 840 Wh. So you can run a 5 W computer (that does nothing but periodically wake up to look for and download updates and such) for 168 hours. (Of course, any competent implementation will not let electronics run the battery flat, but it still seems like way more than enough)

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#646

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

Markoff wrote: post #586
ggm-at-algebras wrote: post #349

In Shenzhen for a tech meeting. The streetscape is quieter, despite high traffic levels and I hear not only MORE birdsong, but the birds do more complex songlines. The air is clean. For sure some of this is because it's a coastal city and has fresh sea breezes, but I've been in other Chinese coastal cities in times past and the air was significantly less clean. There are social upsides for an almost-all-EV city. This…

Counterpoint - I returned to China (Beijing) last summer after 9 years and was honestly surprised how LITTLE it has changed over those 9 years, I was expecting big changes reading this tales about Shenzhen, but the reality is maybe only 1/4-1/3 of the cars on the road were EVs, there were pretty much none escooters, people still smoke in restaurants and yes, the air was for the most part perfectly fine, though this w…

1/4-1/3 EVs is an underestimate for somewhere like Shenzhen (probably for Beijing too). It's going to be well over 50% there. And virtually all scooters will be electric.

You're right about the smoking, though. It's a massive problem.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#647

Post by rTX5CMRXIfFG »

drnick1 wrote: post #608
WalterBright wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was told by a car dealer service guy that if the touch screen went on the blink, the car would be totaled. (Since replacing it cost more than the car was worth.) I've often thought the touch screen should be replaced by a socket that accepts an iPad, and put the auto custom software on that. Why reinvent the hardware?

> I've often thought the touch screen should be replaced by a socket that accepts an iPad, The last thing I need is Apple spying on me when I am driving.

Funny that you say that because of all the big tech companies, Apple has the best track record at fighting for consumer privacy. And you certainly cannot say that for any of the car makers that currently have an EV lineup.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#648

Post by neya »

rossjudson wrote: post #494
neya wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At a societal level, EVs are generally better than ICE cars. Cite your sources, please > cars that can automatically fix a "recall" with an over-the-air update are generally better than recalls that will wait to get fixed until an owner schedules an appointment to have the car serviced. If a "recall" can be fixed via software, doesn't that mean just shitty software to begin with? And that usually happens only when…

Cite your own sources that they're not. And maybe try to avoid the ten year old nonsense that's frequently floated as "evidence". On recalls -- like the one that said that individual icons have to be slightly bigger ? Yeah, shitty software. Or the one that made Tesla annoy drivers with a smaller timeout? That was actually a safety issue --- people would turn off FSD to adjust something and then turn it back on again.…

> Cite your own sources that they're not.

Cite my sources for what exactly?

> that they're not.

You made an assumption about something I never said and used that as the base of your argument to make a point.

I didn't say anything, I simply asked them to cite a source for that kind of a grandiose claim. If you make a claim like that without citation(s), the onus to prove it lies on the person making the said claim, not on me to disprove it.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#649

Post by carefree-bob »

neya wrote: post #453
rkagerer wrote: post #308

Honda is setting itself up for failure on the second disruption sweeping the automotive industry: the software-defined vehicle (SDV), which has core capabilities that can be upgraded and improved over time. No thank you. Not sure why the author frames this as a good thing. They've been bamboozled by the automakers and have got it backwards - you're buying a vehicle that already has the capabilities, but are disabled,…

Most people including the author think more software = premium/better. But as software engineers, we know better. That's not the case at all. More software = more control by everyone else except you. Manufacturers. Governments. For this reason, I always avoid cars with big flashy LCD screens that are central to controlling the cars accessories like sunroof, AC and other electricals. The other issue is support. So man…

There is also the issue of longevity. Most people don't expect 20 year old laptops to keep working, but they expect 20 year old cars to keep working. The software defined vehicle is a disposable vehicle, and that means it better be cheap or someone is taking a depreciation bath.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#650

Post by matheusmoreira »

deathanatos wrote: post #612
simondotau wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your sentiment, and I agree with you in the hypothetical universe I think you’re imagining. But in this universe, that ship has long since sailed. Cars are software. They have been so for a long time. The only difference between a Tesla and an economy car from Stellantis is whether the software is well written or not. My wife has a 2015 Jeep Cherokee. For its purpose It’s actually quite a nice vehicle, s…

You can do all the research in the world about a car, learn everything there is to know, and decide "this is worth my money". (Bait) And then your car's manufacturer chooses to use the update mechanism to modify the center console screen to serve ads[1] while you're driving. (… and switch.) [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/subaru/comments/1p57ohp/these_ads_s...

That's pretty disgusting. Advertisers are so starved from attention they felt the need to distract drivers and cause accidents.

Advertisers need to be regulated.

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