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Honda is killing its EVs

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Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#561

Post by 0_____0 »

rudhdb773b wrote: post #438
0_____0 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CAFE regs made USian hugecars relatively profitable, and car makers got USians to demand them via savvy marketing. That's what I reckon anyway.

The word "American" already unambiguously describes people of the USA. You don't need to make up a new word.

1. Synonyms exist in language.

2. You're on a site with a bunch of programmers who regularly use weird words for stuff that already has a name. Reading through HN is wading through a swamp of made up names and tech neologisms, you're just used to it already. I once told a software guy that our team's SWEs had migrated away from React and Node to Stork.JS and Blackadder. He nodded like that meant anything.

3. I like it and you can't stop me.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#562

Post by erxam »

direwolf20 wrote: post #444
ggm-at-algebras wrote: post #349

In Shenzhen for a tech meeting. The streetscape is quieter, despite high traffic levels and I hear not only MORE birdsong, but the birds do more complex songlines. The air is clean. For sure some of this is because it's a coastal city and has fresh sea breezes, but I've been in other Chinese coastal cities in times past and the air was significantly less clean. There are social upsides for an almost-all-EV city. This…

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Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#563

Post by dalmo3 »

achierius wrote: post #440
MiiMe19 wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we don't care about capitalism, we don't want over the air updates to our cars.

When you're fighting the same enemy on a dozen battlefields, you won't stand a chance of winning until you understand that fact and go after the root cause.

Because enshittification wouldn't happen in a centrally-planned economy? What's the basis of this?

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#564

Post by [deleted] »

rkagerer wrote: post #308

Honda is setting itself up for failure on the second disruption sweeping the automotive industry: the software-defined vehicle (SDV), which has core capabilities that can be upgraded and improved over time. No thank you. Not sure why the author frames this as a good thing. They've been bamboozled by the automakers and have got it backwards - you're buying a vehicle that already has the capabilities, but are disabled,…

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Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#565

Post by beeflet »

slg wrote: post #415
metaphor wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's all motherhood and apple pie, but I'm sorry: the reality that we live in and incentives at play are such that if a capability can be exploited, then it will be exploited to the detriment of the consumer. Full stop.

It's interesting how many complaints I see on HN that are framed as if they're complaints about a specific piece of technology when they are really complaints about capitalism. I'm all ears if you want to criticize our entire economic system, but I think it's silly to have that conversation specifically in the context of car software rather than at a societal level.

Do personal computers even really emerge under communism? it is yet to be seen. But this specific technology seems to only evolve under capitalism to suit the needs of a certain type of buisness against the consumer.

If it emerged under communism, it probably would be equally as bad. I imagine if it emerged under communism or socialism it would be designed to solve a similar problems: securing the needs of the state against the citizen.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#566

Post by elihu »

linkregister wrote: post #233
boringg wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two points. 1. Infra will need to upgrade in order to handle heavy charging in neighborhoods with wholesale change in the fleet. It would change our electrical use model considerably in terms of times of use -- and we would be adding all the energy used from gas powered cars to the electrical grid - which is somewhat significant. 2. While you are correct technically -- I think what I am implying is older cars (ICE) w…

It's a myth that EV charging requires an upgrade to a 100 amp connection. Scheduling charging to times when you're not using appliances will still result in a charged vehicle by morning. The Youtube channel Technology Connections has an interesting video where it describes a successful transition to a fully-electric house while remaining on a 50 amp electrical connection. (it requires a smart circuit breaker)

That's true enough at the level of individual households. If the whole neighborhood switches to EVs, the power grid in general might not be built to handle it.

(Personally I don't expect this will be that big a deal, since switching to EVs is something that happens one household at a time over many years. So, it shouldn't come as a sudden shock, and its something the utilities can make long term plans about. It just means power utilities need to be on the ball about not putting off infrastructure upgrades, and it means somewhat higher electricity prices for residential customers.)

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#567

Post by phito »

rossjudson wrote: post #496
pclowes wrote: post #492

Everyone is saying EVs are the future but most EVs cannot compete with many of Honda’s offerings. Eg. I need to move 6 people and significant gear (skiing, camping, biking etc) long remote distances. There is no EV that can do that really. And the ones that come close are easily $20-30k higher than an Odyssey. Plus the durability of large EVs is far from proven while the 300k mile club of Odyssey owners is large. I n…

So an EV is not for you! You just might be one of the unlucky 1% for whom that is true. Congratulate yourself on visiting nature while simultaneously messing it up. And enjoy the fuel prices.

In a lot of places, most of your electricity is generated by burning coal and gas.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#568

Post by beeflet »

uniq7 wrote: post #445
hnav wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's true? How does an automaker that doesn't engage in those tactics compete when the rest of the market does?

Like sugar-free, gluten-free, dairy-free, nut-free food, where the lack of something is sold as something positive. I'd love to buy an ad-free, subscription-free, tracking-free, touchscreen-free car.

In the future, no one will be rich enough to buy a free car

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#569

Post by margalabargala »

hedora wrote: post #472
margalabargala wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's silly is that the reality you describe is a choice that's been made, not something fundamental to EVs. Cars like the Nissan Leaf and the Chevy Bolt are supremely inexpensive. China's BYD cars are extremely cheap for what they are. American/European car makers realized there is a large class of people who are wealthy and will buy a high end EV for status reasons, and started chasing that market instead.

Even the Ford Lightning (by far the best work truck on the market) was modestly priced compared to other Fords. Ford claims there’s no market for “expensive” $60-70K trucks in the US, but go to any Ford dealership in the bay area, and they’ll have used ICE Ford trucks that cost that much. (And I don’t mean the giant specialty super duty trucks — these are tricked out suburban kid transporters that look like they’ve n…

I would argue the EV Silverado goes toe to toe with the F150 lightning and wins. Similar price, better range, better features.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#570

Post by jojobas »

somerandomqaguy wrote: post #531
slg wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you're buying a vehicle that already has the capabilities, but are disabled, then paying rent (or a fee) to turn them on. This is very much not what "software-defined vehicle" means which itself is very much not the same thing as EVs. It's possible to criticize the explotative business practices you mentioned (or bad UI practices like moving everything to a touchscreen instead of physical buttons) without linking th…

>a societal level, cars that can automatically fix a "recall" with an over-the-air update are generally better than recalls that will wait to get fixed until an owner schedules an appointment to have the car serviced Maybe? At least in my experience, once the cost of patching buggy software goes down, it typically means that the people become more willing to ship software with more bugs with a fix it later attitude.

I'd go with "please download this file onto a usb key and run the update when you have a minute" over the car doing anything "automatically".
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