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Honda is killing its EVs

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Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#471

Post by Barrin92 »

neya wrote: post #462
slg wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you're buying a vehicle that already has the capabilities, but are disabled, then paying rent (or a fee) to turn them on. This is very much not what "software-defined vehicle" means which itself is very much not the same thing as EVs. It's possible to criticize the explotative business practices you mentioned (or bad UI practices like moving everything to a touchscreen instead of physical buttons) without linking th…

> At a societal level, EVs are generally better than ICE cars. Cite your sources, please > cars that can automatically fix a "recall" with an over-the-air update are generally better than recalls that will wait to get fixed until an owner schedules an appointment to have the car serviced. If a "recall" can be fixed via software, doesn't that mean just shitty software to begin with? And that usually happens only when…

>Cite your sources, please

we need sources for the fact an electric motor, all other things being equal, is better than a combustion engine? If you agree that people in general value the health of their lungs that alone is sufficient reason.

It's also becoming quickly a question of geopolitical resilience, running your transport system on dinosaur juice coming from regions where people blow each other up is bad in particular if you happen to be Japanese automaker Honda

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#472

Post by hedora »

margalabargala wrote: post #275
Yizahi wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EVs are fine and dandy, but it is a luxury class of cars for now and it shows really. Most other countries are far far away from mass deployment of EVs or restricting ICE cars. EVs can win if either a) the car is cheaper than the same class ICE, or b) operational expenses of using EV car would be cheaper. Neither of which is happening yet. And the car do need to have some advantage, since EVs already come with inhere…

What's silly is that the reality you describe is a choice that's been made, not something fundamental to EVs. Cars like the Nissan Leaf and the Chevy Bolt are supremely inexpensive. China's BYD cars are extremely cheap for what they are. American/European car makers realized there is a large class of people who are wealthy and will buy a high end EV for status reasons, and started chasing that market instead.

Even the Ford Lightning (by far the best work truck on the market) was modestly priced compared to other Fords.

Ford claims there’s no market for “expensive” $60-70K trucks in the US, but go to any Ford dealership in the bay area, and they’ll have used ICE Ford trucks that cost that much.

(And I don’t mean the giant specialty super duty trucks — these are tricked out suburban kid transporters that look like they’ve never seen a camp ground, let alone a Home Depot).

Anyway, the Lightning was a fantastic model line. I hope someone else builds quarter ton EV trucks moving forward. I’m rooting for Rivian and Slate.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#473

Post by cheema33 »

gcanyon wrote: post #214

EVs are going to be an extinction-level event for carmakers. As the buggy-makers failed to transition to making cars, and thus ceased to be, so too will automakers fail to transition to EVs, and thus end their viability as vehicle manufacturers.

> EVs are going to be an extinction-level event for carmakers.

Agreed. It is exceptionally rare for a consumer to purchase one EV and then buy ICE as their next vehicle. I have owned EVs for more than 10 years. There is no going back.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#475

Post by hedora »

cyberax wrote: post #367
Yizahi wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EVs are fine and dandy, but it is a luxury class of cars for now and it shows really. Most other countries are far far away from mass deployment of EVs or restricting ICE cars. EVs can win if either a) the car is cheaper than the same class ICE, or b) operational expenses of using EV car would be cheaper. Neither of which is happening yet. And the car do need to have some advantage, since EVs already come with inhere…

> the car is cheaper than the same class ICE, To give you some perspective, the most popular EV in China costs $6000 (Wuling Mini). New. The second most popular costs $10000 (Geely Xingyuan). I tried both, and they are far less crappy than they have the right to be. They are cheap cars for sure, but they're perfectly adequate for regular use. And Geely Xingyuan has a 40kWh battery in the basic configuration! This is…

Out of curiosity, do they support one pedal driving correctly (i.e., let you set it and forget it, and never unexpectedly accelerate from a stop unless you turn it off explicitly).

BMW used to, but broke it on the i4, and presumably all the newer ones. Kia’s implementation is completely broken.

I ask, because that’s the number one thing I’ll check for with future EV purchases, and it’s purely software.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#476

Post by cheema33 »

bpiroman wrote: post #424

What is wrong with the japanese automotive industry shifting to 100% EV!? Seems like some kind of seppuku...

> What is wrong with the japanese automotive industry shifting to 100% EV!? Seems like some kind of seppuku

The writing is on the wall. ICE vehicles sales are declining worldwide. The direction is very clear to anybody paying attention.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#477

Post by LooseMarmoset »

Jblx2 wrote: post #290
LooseMarmoset wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CAFE killed small trucks in part, tariffs in another part, but US manufacturers are the real reason small trucks are dead. US manufacturers want margins, and they're not getting margins on little, efficient cars. They get enormous margins on gigantic trucks that start at $55,000. Have you noticed that all the sub $20k cars went away from all the manufacturers around COVID? Ford makes the Maverick, which is a small tr…

>Why would Ford want to cannibalize their pricy gigantic trucks when they know that they can get their $50k asking price because there's nowhere else for people to go? Why isn't Ford worried that Chevrolet, Toyota, Ram, or Nissan will bring back a small and cheap U.S. built pickup? Is that because all manufacturers are afraid of cannibalizing their more expensive offerings? Are they all colluding? Or do not many peop…

Neither GM, Chrysler, or Ford wants to hurt their expensive offerings. Toyota and Nissan have less expensive offerings, but can't bring them here because the tariffs make them much less margin, and the CAFE standards kill the rest off.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#478

Post by defrost »

wileydragonfly wrote: post #469
MiiMe19 wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Producing things that other people use is bad and literally cocaine!!! >Stop wanting to actually make things and have a well rounded economy!!!

I’m really at a loss with these “we should stop using the abundant natural resource bubbling out of the ground and completely overhaul our entire infrastructure” arguments. We also produce more wind power than anyone else. Change will come incrementally.

> Change will come incrementally.

You and I are in agreement then - and that change will ideally be away from harmful sequestered carbon.

> I have no idea

> I’m really at a loss

Seriously, starte with IEA reports, the IPCC reports, etc. they really do go into excruciating detail about these things you have no idea about and are at a loss to understand.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#479

Post by [deleted] »

Tagbert wrote: post #352
yndoendo wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still find it funny when it comes to oil between the USA and Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia started moving the electrical system to renewables where USA is doubling down on fossil fuels. Saudi Arabia is the drug dealer that knows you don't consumer your own supply unless you must were the USA consumes the crack they sell. My next vehicle will 100% be pure EV, not Tesla.

The funny thing is the US doesn’t really consume much Saudi Oil. The US is a net exporter of oil, though they do import some specific types of oils and export more of others. The US’s interest in the Middle East oil is a lot about stabilizing oil prices. At least it used to be when there was a rational policy and competent executors.

[deleted]

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#480

Post by wisty »

slg wrote: post #417
scj wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "At a societal level, cars that can automatically fix a "recall" with an over-the-air update..." If an over-the-air patch can have that kind of impact, then what happens if security is compromised and that power is used for ill?

When was the last time you worried about someone cutting your brakes? A lot of times these hypothetical fears are disconnected from reality. Security is important, but people generally don't engage in destruction for destruction's sake so improving default safety levels has been a clear net positive for society so far. Maybe I'm being shortshighted and a future security exploit will change that, but it's not somethin…

I can imagine a nation state behaving badly in 2026 ...
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