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Honda is killing its EVs

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Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#451

Post by dahart »

direwolf20 wrote: post #442
dahart wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you're buying a vehicle that already has the capabilities, but are disabled, then paying rent (or a fee) to turn them on. I'm much more likely to buy from a manufacturer that doesn't play these games. Ongoing subscriptions for access to physical hardware features like seat warmers* seems obnoxious at first glance, but a fee is more reasonable and you might find that there aren’t many auto makers that don’t do this…

It's legal to cut the seat heater relay out of the circuit and wire it to your own, right?

Yes, as far as I know, and I hope so. Looks like BWM did try it, and rolled the program back after backlash. Maybe I recall it was hacked too?

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#453

Post by neya »

rkagerer wrote: post #308

Honda is setting itself up for failure on the second disruption sweeping the automotive industry: the software-defined vehicle (SDV), which has core capabilities that can be upgraded and improved over time. No thank you. Not sure why the author frames this as a good thing. They've been bamboozled by the automakers and have got it backwards - you're buying a vehicle that already has the capabilities, but are disabled,…

Most people including the author think more software = premium/better. But as software engineers, we know better. That's not the case at all. More software = more control by everyone else except you. Manufacturers. Governments.

For this reason, I always avoid cars with big flashy LCD screens that are central to controlling the cars accessories like sunroof, AC and other electricals.

The other issue is support. So many models stop getting updates after 5 years. So, if there is a bug in that big screen, you have to live with it for the rest of the car's life.

Finally, there's the issue of privacy. Most manufacturers contract with analytics vendors to send your data back to them. You can't even turn it off. For example, MG (now chinese owned) has Adobe analytics embedded into their big screens. The only reason chinese love using Adobe over other vendors is because they aren't blocked in China. So that's usually a dead giveaway that your data is being sent back there.

What kind of data? You will be surprised.

1. How many people are inside the car at a given point (measuring laden weight)

2. What are your favorite spots (your home, office, restaurants, etc)

3. How many people live in your family (average laden weight over time)

4. Your favorite routes, highways

5. If you are married/have kids

6. If you're having an affair

7. Your annual income, monthly spend, estimated net worth

And a lot more data points that I can list here. Remember, they have access to additional data brokers to stitch a complete user profile about you too.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#454

Post by tialaramex »

skissane wrote: post #248
pyuser583 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is still one country that uses leaded gasoline for personal cars. For automobiles, the future comes very slowly.

> There is still one country that uses leaded gasoline for personal cars. That was true five years ago, but no longer-Algeria, the last country to allow it, banned leaded petrol in 2021 - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-58388810

It's actually not clear to me in what sense "banned" is used here. The UK never formally "banned" leaded petrol. They banned sales of new cars which need it, and then later told places which sell petrol that they can only have a small portion of their fuel as leaded, and then (as anticipated) market forces did the rest.

AFAICT it would still be legal for the place on the bypass near me to sell leaded fuel but they don't because (a) the market is too small, not worth it and (b) as a result wholesalers don't offer the product, so if they wanted to sell it they can't get it anyway.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#455

Post by skeeter2020 »

ggm-at-algebras wrote: post #349

In Shenzhen for a tech meeting. The streetscape is quieter, despite high traffic levels and I hear not only MORE birdsong, but the birds do more complex songlines. The air is clean. For sure some of this is because it's a coastal city and has fresh sea breezes, but I've been in other Chinese coastal cities in times past and the air was significantly less clean. There are social upsides for an almost-all-EV city. This…

It also has a relatively low vehicle density, roughly 1/3 of somewhere like Houston. Mexico City is a good comparison by size and vehciles, but is also a way older, sprawling city. Shenzhen was largely built around modern road planning and extensive transit, and the power of aggressive policies limiting gas cars.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#456

Post by parl_match »

SenHeng wrote: post #321
parl_match wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm convinced that the Japanese government is terrified of EVs because all the small and medium-sized businesses which support the Japanese auto industry will be absolutely gutted when vehicles contain drastically fewer parts. For what it's worth, this theory is blown up by hydrogen based vehicles, which Japan has gone heavily in on. Yes, slightly more parts than an EV, but not a ton. And the drivetrain is electric…

It really shows the bias in Honda’s management here. They’ve also spent years trying to develop and promote their hydrogen fuel cell cars and it’s just as much of a failure as their EV division yet they aren’t axing that golden child.

That's a fundamental misunderstanding of why they're going in on hydrogen so hard - it's something they can generate domestically and without geopolitical implications.

If there is a war with china or in the middle east, hydrogen vehicles are somewhat immune to oil or rare earth spikes.

They will likely never roll out hydrogen power in any large capacity but the capability will be there if they need it

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#457

Post by jacquesm »

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #433
jacquesm wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do live in a house, could easily afford an EV and have plenty of solar to keep it charged. And I still don't have one because all of these EVs feel like the worst of the computer world applied to automotive. The last thing I need is a computer on wheels and I'm old enough that I know my current car is likely my last. For my kids it is different, and I'm sure that they'll go electric at some point but I hope that th…

>they'll be able to do so without buying a mobile privacy violation instrument. Tell me you don't bring any mobile device when you ride/drive a car.

There is a slight difference between my mobile phone/carrier and the manufacturer of my vehicle, especially when the latter includes cameras, all kinds of telemetry and of course the near certainty over the longer term of compromise of all the data they hoover up.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#458

Post by roysting »

fwipsy wrote: post #377
rkagerer wrote: post #308

Honda is setting itself up for failure on the second disruption sweeping the automotive industry: the software-defined vehicle (SDV), which has core capabilities that can be upgraded and improved over time. No thank you. Not sure why the author frames this as a good thing. They've been bamboozled by the automakers and have got it backwards - you're buying a vehicle that already has the capabilities, but are disabled,…

It doesn't have to be ethical. Honda is missing out on something profitable.

Ironically Honda announced its move, precisely to bandage the gaping $16 billion wound from EV reorganization and retooling.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#459

Post by seanmcdirmid »

jacquesm wrote: post #457
rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they'll be able to do so without buying a mobile privacy violation instrument. Tell me you don't bring any mobile device when you ride/drive a car.

There is a slight difference between my mobile phone/carrier and the manufacturer of my vehicle, especially when the latter includes cameras, all kinds of telemetry and of course the near certainty over the longer term of compromise of all the data they hoover up.

Did you mean the former?

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#460

Post by shiroiuma »

jesterson wrote: post #381
ggm-at-algebras wrote: post #349

In Shenzhen for a tech meeting. The streetscape is quieter, despite high traffic levels and I hear not only MORE birdsong, but the birds do more complex songlines. The air is clean. For sure some of this is because it's a coastal city and has fresh sea breezes, but I've been in other Chinese coastal cities in times past and the air was significantly less clean. There are social upsides for an almost-all-EV city. This…

>almost-all-EV city. Shenzhen is not nearly "almost-all EV" city. There is a lot of wealthy people and almost none of them drives EV. You can see all expensive cars are ICE (blue plates). Modern ICE cars emit almost no sound or emissions. Its not 70s with black smoke coming from exhaust pipes. You can take any densely populated city with almost none EV vehicles (say Tokyo) and you can hear birds and air would be very…

I live in Tokyo, and the air is not that clean close to highways: large diesel trucks pollute a lot, and also small motorbikes/scooters pollute horribly because they don't seem to require any emissions controls at all.

The main thing keeping the air clean here is the proximity to the bay, along with the fact that there just aren't that many private cars in the first place, since most people take public transit and don't drive because there's nowhere to park.

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