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Honda is killing its EVs

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Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#221

Post by mjcarden »

parl_match wrote: post #133
mullingitover wrote: post #77

I'm convinced that the Japanese government is terrified of EVs because all the small and medium-sized businesses which support the Japanese auto industry will be absolutely gutted when vehicles contain drastically fewer parts. That, and Japan is deeply screwed if they go all-in on EVs and then China decides they shouldn't be allowed access to any more rare earths.

> I'm convinced that the Japanese government is terrified of EVs because all the small and medium-sized businesses which support the Japanese auto industry will be absolutely gutted when vehicles contain drastically fewer parts. For what it's worth, this theory is blown up by hydrogen based vehicles, which Japan has gone heavily in on. Yes, slightly more parts than an EV, but not a ton. And the drivetrain is electric…

Is there a place somewhere in the world where Hydrogen powered passenger vehicles are a success? I know that the one Hydrogen filling station here in Australia's Capital City has shut down after opening with great fanfare a few years ago. And the approximately 20 or so Hydrogen cars it supplied are no longer being used.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#222

Post by observationist »

wisplike wrote: post #142
observationist wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also non rare earth magnets being explored. Niron - Iron nitride - magnets and ultrasonic compaction and other tech that wasn't feasible a while back are now becoming very practical. Japan could probably get to a dominant place with a solid research program, it'd give them a huge advantage for EVs and other motors.

Dont forget about good old externally excited motors like what Renault uses, no rare earths needed.

Definitely, and new engineering around axial flux / pancake motors are getting really exciting. 1000 HP motors in a single wheel - https://yasa.com/news/yasa-smashes-own-unofficial-power-dens...

Incredible what can be done. If Japan ever wants actual mecha warriors for their military, they're going to need motors like that.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#223

Post by BirAdam »

fpoling wrote: post #180
sigmoid10 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consumers have very little power in this space. Have you tried buying a non-premium car with physical buttons instead of touchscreens in recent years? There used to be hardly any option because carmakers all somehow decided this was the way forward, even though science clearly said it was making cars less safe. So if you needed a car and didn't have a ton of money, you could merely accept it. Only now that safety rat…

Toyota Yaris, a small budget car has physical buttons for everything.

Yaris has been discontinued.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#224

Post by pyuser583 »

jacquesm wrote: post #92
TrackerFF wrote: post #85

I live in a top EV market, Norway. ICE cars have been planned out for years now, and something like 96% of all new cars in Norway were EV last year. Basically, if you plan on keeping selling ICE cars, you're removing yourself from the market here. There's no future for new personal ICE cars here. I figure most other countries will be the same.

> I live in a top EV market, Norway. It is the top EV market. > I figure most other countries will be the same. Most other countries are not Norway, it is a very wealthy, tiny market (150 K vehicles/year) with lots of hydro and not representative of the typical vehicle market in Western Europe and definitely not representative of the situation in the rest of the world. EVs are the future, there is no doubt about that…

There is still one country that uses leaded gasoline for personal cars.

For automobiles, the future comes very slowly.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#225

Post by porphyra »

billfor wrote: post #129

"Here, Honda is setting itself up for failure on the second disruption sweeping the automotive industry: the software-defined vehicle (SDV), which has core capabilities that can be upgraded and improved over time." I'll pay triple for a non software defined vehicle that doesn't track me and can't be touched by the dealer once I purchase it. My one SDV (Tesla) is still on FSD from 2023 because the newer versions are t…

The newer versions of FSD are soooooo much better. Don't listen to the "comments on the Tesla forums".

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#226

Post by jedberg »

This is so unfortunate. I was never a van guy, but my wife insisted we get a van, so I got the Honda. And honestly? I kinda love it. It drives like a car but holds eight people (or four people and a whole bunch of luggage).

The way we use the van, 90% of our drives are under 20 miles round trip. The rest are longer road trips. I've been waiting eight years for Honda to make an electric or even a plug-in hybrid where the gas motor just charge the battery.

It would be perfect for my family. I guess that's not happening now.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#227

Post by SoftTalker »

Night_Thastus wrote: post #108
boringg wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting but North America has different needs for vehicles. Long time before our electrical systems to be able to compensate for that kind of whole sale change. Will be at least 20 years if it ever happens. I would also say that any ICE vehicle that has 0 subscription models, upgradable firmware, tracking software will probably have a value premium to it in the not distant future. FWIW downvoters - I have a PHEV…

>Long time before our electrical systems to be able to compensate for that kind of whole sale change. Will be at least 20 years if it ever happens. There's little to no reason that the electrical grid itself needs to change for the sake of EV's. The biggest problem is that while slow charging (L2) in your own garage would be perfect for 99%+ of people in the US, and isn't even very expensive, that's a barrier to entr…

> No one is going to pay extra for fewer features.

Right, what people want is to pay less for fewer features.

If EVs with all their limitations are going to replace ICE cars for daily use, they need to be cheap. We need the Ford Focus or Toyota Tercel of EVs, with the same set of features (i.e. very few) that those cars had when they were introduced.

Otherwise I'll just go buy a used ICE Tercel or Focus.

When Tesla showed the world that an EV didn't have to look like a middle school science project and drive like a golf cart, it made sense that they went upmarket. They had to recover development costs. That won't work to get mass conversion.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#228

Post by manoDev »

mullingitover wrote: post #77

I'm convinced that the Japanese government is terrified of EVs because all the small and medium-sized businesses which support the Japanese auto industry will be absolutely gutted when vehicles contain drastically fewer parts. That, and Japan is deeply screwed if they go all-in on EVs and then China decides they shouldn't be allowed access to any more rare earths.

Japan is just being the usual USA vassal. Since now China absolutely dominates EV and batteries, they rather align themselves with the oil-thirsty war monger.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#229

Post by gensym »

gcanyon wrote: post #214

EVs are going to be an extinction-level event for carmakers. As the buggy-makers failed to transition to making cars, and thus ceased to be, so too will automakers fail to transition to EVs, and thus end their viability as vehicle manufacturers.

Right? Have any of the execs making these decisions ever ridden in an EV? They are so much better that the experience I've seen is no one will ever go back to preferring ICE after spending time with an EV. My family currently has 2 ICE vehicles (one is a PHEV). I really doubt we'll buy another.

The week I spent renting an EV (an Ioniq 5, so not even a high-end one) convinced me. Enjoyable to drive. Having to figure out where/how to charge it was sufficient to chase away the fears around that.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#230

Post by 7thpower »

onraglanroad wrote: post #131
walthamstow wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway is a very special case in that it has massive hydro energy resources and nobody lives there.

Norway has roughly the population of the average US state. So I guess no-one really lives in the USA.

The USA has 50 states.
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