Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Honda is killing its EVs

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 919 posts

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#201

Post by hangonhn »

fakedang wrote: post #140
hangonhn wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they do have a moat because they dominate the supply chain not just in the raw material and processing but also in some of the actual technical experience, i.e. the experience of running such processing facilities, and also a monopoly on making the equipment that you need to build such a facility. They put export controls on those equipment and restricted their citizens who work in the rare earths industry fr…

I have worked with the Chinese REE industry, and we've often bumped heads and shared ideas together with them and I can confidently tell you, the Chinese don't use anything novel that has not been established in Western science already. What they do have is executing rarely-used techniques confidently at scale, but all of that is already often published in the West. The only reason the West hasn't done it is because…

What I mean is that since the peak of American REE in the 1970s and 1980s(?) a lot of the engineers who have working knowledge are retired. There's nothing theoretical we can't dig up but I think there will need to be a number of years for the US to catch up in terms of craft knowledge or "metis" (as Dan Wang likes to call it) and processing equipment and plants.

Maybe I'm wrong. I gained my knowledge second-hand/third-hand from books and podcasts so I would defer to you to your actual experience and observations about Chinese REE. What is your estimate on how long it would take the West to catch to at least supply some of the rare earth components and what the real barriers might be? Would love to hear your take on this.

Thanks for sharing your observations. I had no idea about the minutiae of that industry, i.e. the ecological control and its effects on the industry.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#202

Post by appreciatorBus »

yndoendo wrote: post #191
bwestergard wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"exporting your own oil and gas to be able to have a 'clean' (and up to recently heavily subsidized) transportation network is in a way just a gigantic bookkeeping trick" How so? If every oil exporter used some of their oil revenue to switch to EVs, that would, all things equal, hasten the transition to EVs. The U.S. is not doing that.

I still find it funny when it comes to oil between the USA and Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia started moving the electrical system to renewables where USA is doubling down on fossil fuels. Saudi Arabia is the drug dealer that knows you don't consumer your own supply unless you must were the USA consumes the crack they sell. My next vehicle will 100% be pure EV, not Tesla.

> the drug dealer that knows you don't consumer your own supply unless you must

So true. There's nothing incompatible at all with: a) realizing that earth has gifted you with a valuable but limited & polluting energy source b) realizing that you'd be foolish to get you own country hooked on it, but it's not a bad business if you can get other countries hooked on it.

Instead we get oil rich areas seemingly determined to show off how much of their oil they can waste.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#203

Post by speedgoose »

jacquesm wrote: post #194
speedgoose wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m what part of the world do you live to have a carbureted car from the late 90s?

Netherlands. And fuel injection has been a thing since the 1930s for Diesel and the 1950's for vehicles. Yes, it has an ECU and ooh, gollies there is software in that. But it's completely invisible from an interaction point of view, there are no screens, all the buttons just do what they are told, there are no 'upgrades', no bugs, interfaces, restarts and attempts to kill me through 'assistance'.

I understand the appeal. Do you use paper maps too or you have a smartphone on the dashboard ? That would be a bit cheating.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#204

Post by lbebber »

raegis wrote: post #161
steve-atx-7600 wrote: post #33

“Many automakers have found that dropping batteries into a car originally designed for an internal combustion engine”. Reminds me of idiotic hybrid variants of Subaru and Honda vehicles that don’t have spare tires because the battery was slapped into the existing vehicle platform as an afterthought. Eg. Subaru forester hybrid. Car bought by educated, practical folks.

New Honda Accord hybrids do not include a spare tire. The manufacturers copied the idiocy.

Weird, they do here in Brazil (Hybrid Civics as well). Must be a cost or regulatory thing more than anything else.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#205

Post by LooseMarmoset »

viccis wrote: post #66
Denatonium wrote: post #44

Calling the Prologue "Honda's EV" feels like a huge stretch. The Prologue was a rebadged GM vehicle that served strictly as a compliance car for meeting CAFE standards. Now that the CAFE standards have been rendered toothless, there's no longer a need for that deal.

>Now that the CAFE standards have been rendered toothless Can you elaborate on this? I'd love to have a cheap small truck like they used to make, but CAFE largely killed those.

CAFE killed small trucks in part, tariffs in another part, but US manufacturers are the real reason small trucks are dead.

US manufacturers want margins, and they're not getting margins on little, efficient cars. They get enormous margins on gigantic trucks that start at $55,000. Have you noticed that all the sub $20k cars went away from all the manufacturers around COVID?

Ford makes the Maverick, which is a small truck. They were priced very reasonably at release, at $19,000 or so. However, Ford didn't make very many of them, and the ones they did make got up to $15,000 over MSRP from the dealers, who scalped them. Why would Ford want to cannibalize their pricy gigantic trucks when they know that they can get their $50k asking price because there's nowhere else for people to go?

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#206

Post by Slow_Hand »

TrackerFF wrote: post #85

I live in a top EV market, Norway. ICE cars have been planned out for years now, and something like 96% of all new cars in Norway were EV last year. Basically, if you plan on keeping selling ICE cars, you're removing yourself from the market here. There's no future for new personal ICE cars here. I figure most other countries will be the same.

I have a tangential question. Do you find that snow banks near roads are appreciably less black and disgusting now that there are fewer ICE vehicles on the road?

Growing up in America I have memories of our roadside snowbanks becoming black and saturated by vehicle exhaust and it always felt so gross to me. The back half of winter was characterized by blackened, salt-saturated puddles and banks. I wonder if the prevalence of EVs has made things less dirty in the winter.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#207

Post by jacquesm »

speedgoose wrote: post #203
jacquesm wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netherlands. And fuel injection has been a thing since the 1930s for Diesel and the 1950's for vehicles. Yes, it has an ECU and ooh, gollies there is software in that. But it's completely invisible from an interaction point of view, there are no screens, all the buttons just do what they are told, there are no 'upgrades', no bugs, interfaces, restarts and attempts to kill me through 'assistance'.

I understand the appeal. Do you use paper maps too or you have a smartphone on the dashboard ? That would be a bit cheating.

I know where I'm going :)

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#208

Post by ryukoposting »

kleiba wrote: post #89

> Consumers, mostly those who buy EVs from the likes of Tesla, Rivian, and BYD, have grown accustomed to the frequent updates, slick infotainment software, and advanced driver-assistance systems. Guess which three items out of that list I do not want.

And what on that list is exclusive to EVs anyway? This whole article reads like a hit piece. It's amateurish.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#210

Post by seanmcdirmid »

tim-tday wrote: post #2

The wind is just blowing back towards internal combustion for the moment. A couple years and they will shift again. Killing the whole research project would be dumb. Killing current models makes some sense.

Only in the US. The rest of the world, especially the undeveloped and developing world, is currently undergoing a car ownership boom due to cheap Chinese EVs.
Post reply on HN