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Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

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Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#591

Post by conartist6 »

The way the law is written is so utterly shit that I don't think it does what it's meant to do at all.

Microsoft has a trillion dollars in liability now because every historical OS is illegal, and every adult user of that historical OS (that you don't ask for their age) is a monetary fine.

$2500 fine for Microsoft for letting me continue use Windows 10 in Colorado, cause they never asked my age.

Also hilariously the law openly FORBIDS checking the user's identity to verify age. It says you MUST NOT collect any more information than is necessary to comply with the law. And complying with the law only requires that you ASK the user to TELL YOU their age, so my non-lawyer take is that if you do anything else like checking ID you can and probably will be prosecuted

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#592

Post by hagbard_c »

dotandgtfo wrote: post #554
jwr wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU, unfortunately, has shown to be very susceptible to this kind of lobbying in the past. We regularly see legislation that is being rammed and rushed through in spite of vocal opposition. I would be very, very worried. (EU citizen)

What examples of this do you have in recent years (post 2016)? The clearest example of lobbying (chat control) has repeatedly been struck down.

> The clearest example of lobbying (chat control) has repeatedly been struck down.

They can try as often as they want and they only have to win once. We - as in those who don't want this Orwellian monster to be written into law - have to win all the time.

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#593

Post by gildenFish »

hliyan wrote: post #538

Why can't we handle this the same way we handle knives, guns and chainsaws: require adults to secure the device before letting minors near them? All the devices need is the ability to create limited access profiles. A human adult performs age verification by only providing the minor with creditals to a limited profile. Trying to perform that verification so far away from the minor, after they have got to the last gat…

I don't know why you think this will stop page verification requirements. For almost all items where a parent/guardian is responsible for a child's access to the item, third parties are also required to not sell or transfer the item to a child. That gets us right back needing to age verify people.

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#594

Post by akdev1l »

hliyan wrote: post #538

Why can't we handle this the same way we handle knives, guns and chainsaws: require adults to secure the device before letting minors near them? All the devices need is the ability to create limited access profiles. A human adult performs age verification by only providing the minor with creditals to a limited profile. Trying to perform that verification so far away from the minor, after they have got to the last gat…

This is essentially what the California law is mandating

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#595

Post by dotandgtfo »

latexr wrote: post #585
dotandgtfo wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What examples of this do you have in recent years (post 2016)? The clearest example of lobbying (chat control) has repeatedly been struck down.

> The clearest example of lobbying (chat control) has repeatedly been struck down. So far. But they’ll keep lobbying and we’ll need to keep fighting. > What examples of this do you have in recent years (post 2016)? Digital Omnibus is another. https://noyb.eu/en/gdpr-omnibus-eu-simplification-far-remove... https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/eu-digit...

> We regularly see legislation that is being rammed and rushed through in spite of vocal opposition.

This implies that regulation is codified. The clear pattern of EU digital regulation doomerism is generally pointing at shitty proposals which aren't approved and codified in law.

Digital omnibus is another proposal.

If "rammed and rushed laws" is legitimately a widespread issue, you should be able to find a good example of something codified which is not just a proposal?

I'm not saying we don't have to fight. But vocal opposition to proposals which ultimately don't make it into law is the system working exactly as intended.

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#596

Post by anthonySs »

badpenny wrote: post #518

It's an important story, and I'm glad it's getting exposure, but this "article" is some really blatant AI slop. Go and read the original Reddit thread by the human being who did the work instead of this lazy regurgitated shit.

in this thread: people hating an ai company from an ai written article about an ai written reddit thread

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#597

Post by kakacik »

sschueller wrote: post #562
XzAeRosho wrote: post #507

I know most of this affects only the US, but I'm wondering where this will go in the EU if the Age Verification Tech goes ahead in America. There's been lots of efforts to increase surveillance disguised as protection for kids in the EU and UK. The Swiss implementation of eID may be hint that governments may/will take the responsibility to implement and maintain the tech, but the multiple intrusions and lobbying by P…

The Swiss eID is open source[1] and it's usage will be limited. Any type of age verification for online service would need go to a vote and would probably loose. "Eigenverantwortung", it is the parents job to look after the kids, not the state. [1] https://github.com/swiyu-admin-ch

You can't just push responsibility for the kids to the parents, where is the world going? This is madness.

The next thing you are going to claim kids from young age shouldn't have fully unlocked smart phones, shouldn't install any app and so on. Where is the end of this? Are you telling me parents should spend more time with kids, heck even be their role models although it is much harder compared to just giving up on them and let the glorious internet and various fashionate toxic tribes raise them? Blasphemy!!!

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#598

Post by konart »

hliyan wrote: post #538

Why can't we handle this the same way we handle knives, guns and chainsaws: require adults to secure the device before letting minors near them? All the devices need is the ability to create limited access profiles. A human adult performs age verification by only providing the minor with creditals to a limited profile. Trying to perform that verification so far away from the minor, after they have got to the last gat…

>same way we handle knives

I'm pretty sure most kids older than 12 do have access to kitchen knives. And actively use them too.

I generally agree with your point. But at the same time access to the internet resouces and to gun or a chaisaw is not the same.

I have no problem securing a few items if my home, but I have no control over whatever is available on the net.

Sure, I can write some firewall rules or create "kid's account" on a streaming platform, but I can do this for every single known service, chat, IM group etc.

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#599

Post by wek »

djxfade wrote: post #537
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think age verification laws are good in principle - there's a lot of stuff on the internet that people should be protected from. But it's the manner of age verification that is the issue. The EU has zero knowledge proof age verification systems, e.g. through your bank, which are secure and don't involve sending a copy of your ID and / or face scan to a dodgy US based 3rd party.

I disagree. What if, hear me out, parents actually parent, instead of relegating the parenting to companies, and ruining the internet for the rest of us?

I'm concerned about these laws and their implications for privacy, but as a parent, I'm not sure what you mean to say parents should parent. How? What should the parent do? How would you recommend a parent protect a 13 year old who spends their time in their room and out with their friends on their phones?

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#600

Post by worldsayshi »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #523
XzAeRosho wrote: post #507

I know most of this affects only the US, but I'm wondering where this will go in the EU if the Age Verification Tech goes ahead in America. There's been lots of efforts to increase surveillance disguised as protection for kids in the EU and UK. The Swiss implementation of eID may be hint that governments may/will take the responsibility to implement and maintain the tech, but the multiple intrusions and lobbying by P…

I think age verification laws are good in principle - there's a lot of stuff on the internet that people should be protected from. But it's the manner of age verification that is the issue. The EU has zero knowledge proof age verification systems, e.g. through your bank, which are secure and don't involve sending a copy of your ID and / or face scan to a dodgy US based 3rd party.

I expect the internet to be overrun with noise due to bots. So I have a feeling that eIDs are inevitable as a solution in the long run. If that is the case shouldn't we push for zero knowledge solutions?
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