Earlier quoted context omitted.
Get better or quit then, I don't give a shit about managers, do your job and let the dozens of people you manage live their fucking lives, we're not here to please you or make your job easier
> we're not here to please you or make your job easier I don't mean to be a jerk but ... if you are one of the people I manage, you literally are employed (at least in part) to make my job easier. That's not the only thing that matters -- which is why we (like many employers) do still allow some remote work. But making management more difficult is absolutely an impact that a rational workplace would take into account…
The return-to-the-office trend backfires
81–90 of 151 posts
Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
When you also consider the nation as you know, a nation, and not a rat race of individual interest, the best thing the government could do is encourage working from home. Break the hell up these "hubs" of white collar industry and let's disperse this work and compensation across the country. I'm betting we would see quite a lot more growth anyhow if these jobs were distributed across the country vs just concentrated…
Except you can't get that year round perfect weather in the midwest.
We are talking about Bay area here, not San Diego. Much of the US experiences 40-50 degree grey bleak cloudy winters.
Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Should an employer not be able to see what their employees are doing at work? There's a difference between visibility into work progress and just mass surveillance of all activity. The only metric that actually matters is the delivery of value. Monitoring isn't an effective way to lead. It only reinforces employees to optimize for "looking busy" rather than being effective. If you have to audit your employees daily…
I mean, maybe. But a company that spends all of it's time "surveilling" their employees rather than adding value will go out of business. So I'm not sure what the point really is when people bring this up when talking about WFH. If someone doesn't want to be surveilled at work they can quit, right?
Not really. Workers produce the thing the company sells. Those workers are mostly trapped so they deal with whatever nonsense management is up to. Management, mostly useless, maintains its control and viability by asserting that workers need policing and they're the ones to do it. If the policing is relatively easy with WFH, they'll do that. If it's much harder, or less demonstrative of their fake value, screw that, they'll just pass that burden on to workers with RTO mandates.
Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
Get better or quit then, I don't give a shit about managers, do your job and let the dozens of people you manage live their fucking lives, we're not here to please you or make your job easier
> we're not here to please you or make your job easier I don't mean to be a jerk but ... if you are one of the people I manage, you literally are employed (at least in part) to make my job easier. That's not the only thing that matters -- which is why we (like many employers) do still allow some remote work. But making management more difficult is absolutely an impact that a rational workplace would take into account…
Your employees are there to make your life easier? As their manager? Do you demand they make you coffee? Rub your feet?
I've been doing this for decades, and I've never seen that attitude work with any 'leader.' I'd hate to work for you. Ever hear of servant leadership? Or hear the line "My job is to clear the runway for you"
Managers are cost centers, 'your' employees are what keep you employed, give them the respect they deserve.
Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure I understand the point. The vast, vast majority of jobs simply cannot be done remotely. So I have little patience for the entitlement of people thinking they "deserve" it or yell about conspiracy theories about why it is going away. There is a reason YC is in person. There is a reason why the top companies are in person.
What say you to the fact that there are companies that work remote today and are competitive and doing fine? Anomalous? Or maybe your prior assumptions need adjustment?
I'd say they are outliers.
They have been setup like that from the start and have a management structure that is fully on board with remote work from top to bottom.
Most companies aren't setup like that and don't have the people to make it work.
Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
What say you to the fact that there are companies that work remote today and are competitive and doing fine? Anomalous? Or maybe your prior assumptions need adjustment?
I'd say they are outliers. They have been setup like that from the start and have a management structure that is fully on board with remote work from top to bottom. Most companies aren't setup like that and don't have the people to make it work.
Why can't they be? Chances are in 1989, most companies weren't set up to work well with computers either. 5 years later everyone had a desktop an email account.
Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
Get better or quit then, I don't give a shit about managers, do your job and let the dozens of people you manage live their fucking lives, we're not here to please you or make your job easier
> we're not here to please you or make your job easier I don't mean to be a jerk but ... if you are one of the people I manage, you literally are employed (at least in part) to make my job easier. That's not the only thing that matters -- which is why we (like many employers) do still allow some remote work. But making management more difficult is absolutely an impact that a rational workplace would take into account…
It’s the exact opposite, managers are employed to make employees job easier. Employees get the jobs done, managers are there to coordinate that work, remove blockers, and enable workers.
Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires
#88RTO is about controlling labor, nothing else. Everything else is a smoke screen. Ask yourself the following questions and you'll understand what happened: - why did RTO happen seemingly right after salaries jumped and labor became scarce? - why did RTO happen virtually in lockstep across all of white collar employment? - why did RTO happen despite no evidence that productivity had anything to do with it? (and in fact…
RTO is also about forcing people in cities, the cities that have lost their factories to globalisation, because it was and still is cheaper to produce far away without the problems of density and then move things, rather than everyone staying close together. The cities that are losing their offices, their last economic engine, to remote working, and with them, the giant property owners who want everyone renting their buildings, not owning scattered homes and sheds.
Cities that serve the ruling classes as a means of ensuring conformity, because the closer you are to your neighbour, the more the herd effect is felt. Cities that themselves serve as a means of control: you consume food and water that doesn't come from the city itself; control these and the four main arteries, and the city is yours, no questions asked.
Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires
#89RTO is about controlling labor, nothing else. Everything else is a smoke screen. Ask yourself the following questions and you'll understand what happened: - why did RTO happen seemingly right after salaries jumped and labor became scarce? - why did RTO happen virtually in lockstep across all of white collar employment? - why did RTO happen despite no evidence that productivity had anything to do with it? (and in fact…
I think these conspiracy theories about RTO are really unhelpful and actually harmful to the viability of hybrid work arrangements. Please work in a day as a oil rig technician or a nurse. "I should be able to work anywhere and my employer must accommodate me" is an extremely privileged and elitist view of thinking. A few of your notes are actually just wrong as well. Salaries jumped during covid due to over-hiring a…
“Someone has it worse than you” is always a stupid argument.
Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires
#90RTO is about controlling labor, nothing else. Everything else is a smoke screen. Ask yourself the following questions and you'll understand what happened: - why did RTO happen seemingly right after salaries jumped and labor became scarce? - why did RTO happen virtually in lockstep across all of white collar employment? - why did RTO happen despite no evidence that productivity had anything to do with it? (and in fact…
I would say that there was also a deliberate push to save the value of commercial real estate. If it were purely about management vs labor, letting people work from home was a great way to offer an attractive benefit for free (or even while saving money) and it made it easy to hire from lower cost of living areas. Wages were going up regardless because of high inflation rates, remote work if anything was tempering that. I'm sure there were some asshole bosses who just missed their petty kingdoms, but it would be too easy for those who could tolerate the remote work situation to gain an advantage. There had to be a smaller group, such as those heavily invested in real estate, that had an overwhelming incentive for demanding RTO and the pull to force their will on everyone at the same time.