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The return-to-the-office trend backfires

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Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#71

Post by diacritical »

I will never go back to the office. There are enough jobs around, even if they pay less. Hell, to live a comfortable life I could work at a job that pays 5x less than what I get paid now (not that much), even though I'll have to sacrifice some stuff. But I'll have to sacrifice luxuries, not my time or mental health.

Personally, I see it like this:

Option 1 - at home:

* stay in my comfortable air-conditioned room in my underpants on my comfortable chair at my comfortable desk or bed,

* surrounded by foods and drinks I like (I a minifridge in my room, it's awesome), and being able to quickly put something in the oven,

* picking my nose or scratching my ass wherever I want to,

* going to the bathroom whenever I want to (maybe with the laptop if I have to be available),

* listening to music on headphones or speakers,

* being able to communicate to and pay attention to family and pets for a few minutes here and there (no, this doesn't mean I'll waste my work time walking the dog or talking with people, but it means I can actually take a minute or two break and have an actual life),

* smoking on the balcony whenever I want to (a 4 second trip),

* alternating between lying on my bed or sitting on my chair or standing or running in place or dancing,

* having my breaks in my most comfortable place - home.

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Option 2 - the office:

* wasting time traveling - driving sucks and the public transportation sucks, for different reasons (and no, I won't relocate just to be close to the office, what the actual fuck, I love my house),

* having to look presentable,

* having to make idle boring chit chat with corporate drones who want to socialize,

* sharing a bathroom,

* having to choose between listening to the office background noise or wearing uncomfortable noise-cancelling headphones,

* having my breaks... in the office (and no, the office PlayStation or ping pong tables don't cut it),

* having to prepare food for the next X hours, then having to eat it or reheat it at the office,

* being able to attend to my house in case of an emergency (fire, floods, robbers, family or pet health issues and so on - yes, they absolutely come first),

* being subjected to cameras and other security theater, as if any employee couldn't wreck the company if they actually wanted to.

If you want me in the office, prepare to pay me a lot more. You won't and I understand. It makes no sense.

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As for productivity - I work hard because I feel obligated, because it's my work ethic and because I don't want to cheat or let people down. If I don't like what I'm doing, I quit instead of "quiet quitting" and doing the bare minimum.

It's much, much easier to get "in the zone" at home, to not burn out, to have time for myself (traffic + actual breaks) and to be happy.

Edit - just to sum it up - it's my only (AFAIK) life and I'm not spending 10-11 hours a day on work. That would leave me with 5-6 hours of "me time" and I'd be too tired to enjoy it.

Edit 2 - similarly, I won't put up with bullshit like:

* installing anything on my personal devices (except things like FOSS TOTP 2FA stuff I can control),

* leaving the camera and mic in my work machines intact (we all know how secure stuff is and how much we can trust corporations),

* taking drug tests.

That said, if you're willing to pay me 50 times what I currently make, I might return to the office with a suit, smile under the cameras, take drug tests, sit on my chair all day and discuss the weather with coworkers on the elevator. I'd be happy to do it for 3 or 4 months.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#72

Post by c0d3rPrimate »

imcrs wrote: post #13

RTO is about controlling labor, nothing else. Everything else is a smoke screen. Ask yourself the following questions and you'll understand what happened: - why did RTO happen seemingly right after salaries jumped and labor became scarce? - why did RTO happen virtually in lockstep across all of white collar employment? - why did RTO happen despite no evidence that productivity had anything to do with it? (and in fact…

[dead]

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#73

Post by Kye »

imcrs wrote: post #13

RTO is about controlling labor, nothing else. Everything else is a smoke screen. Ask yourself the following questions and you'll understand what happened: - why did RTO happen seemingly right after salaries jumped and labor became scarce? - why did RTO happen virtually in lockstep across all of white collar employment? - why did RTO happen despite no evidence that productivity had anything to do with it? (and in fact…

Somewhere I empathize with all the laid off coders and coders worried about the future. I'm not one myself but I know a lot of them, and I never know what to say. The nth refrain of "unionize" doesn't really help when the power to do it is in freefall.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#74

Post by imcrs »

matchbok3 wrote: post #35
imcrs wrote: post #13

RTO is about controlling labor, nothing else. Everything else is a smoke screen. Ask yourself the following questions and you'll understand what happened: - why did RTO happen seemingly right after salaries jumped and labor became scarce? - why did RTO happen virtually in lockstep across all of white collar employment? - why did RTO happen despite no evidence that productivity had anything to do with it? (and in fact…

I think these conspiracy theories about RTO are really unhelpful and actually harmful to the viability of hybrid work arrangements. Please work in a day as a oil rig technician or a nurse. "I should be able to work anywhere and my employer must accommodate me" is an extremely privileged and elitist view of thinking. A few of your notes are actually just wrong as well. Salaries jumped during covid due to over-hiring a…

What's actually really unhelpful and actually harmful to the viability of hybrid work arrangements is RTO.

> "I should be able to work anywhere and my employer must accommodate me" is an extremely privileged and elitist view of thinking.

Nope! You totally missed the point. "You must accomodate me" is a demand, that you can place on your employer, when you have labor power, as an employee. The acceding is what we're talking about here. That is not cultural; it is a matter of market power.

> At the end of the day, if you don't want to work in an office, you don't have to.

What are you talking about? Did you read my post? Yes, I have to! Because of RTO!

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#75

Post by oaweoifjwpo »

asdff wrote: post #25
imcrs wrote: post #13

RTO is about controlling labor, nothing else. Everything else is a smoke screen. Ask yourself the following questions and you'll understand what happened: - why did RTO happen seemingly right after salaries jumped and labor became scarce? - why did RTO happen virtually in lockstep across all of white collar employment? - why did RTO happen despite no evidence that productivity had anything to do with it? (and in fact…

When you also consider the nation as you know, a nation, and not a rat race of individual interest, the best thing the government could do is encourage working from home. Break the hell up these "hubs" of white collar industry and let's disperse this work and compensation across the country. I'm betting we would see quite a lot more growth anyhow if these jobs were distributed across the country vs just concentrated…

Except you can't get that year round perfect weather in the midwest.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#76

Post by surgical_fire »

heraldgeezer wrote: post #53

What if I actually like the office? I have a 40min walk to it or 10min bus ride, so no American commute, lol. (Your society is done) I like my colleagues. Sometimes you want to meet and solve problems face to face, and not have it be planned. I have a shift schedule, sometimes I am the only one in the office, that is bliss :) But my work is 100% in office.

> What if I actually like the office?

Then work from the office.

The problem starts of you demand those that don't want to be in the office to be there to satisfy your needs.

Your loneliness is not my desire to be around others.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#77

Post by 1718627440 »

dmitrygr wrote: post #56
heraldgeezer wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I actually like the office? It is a nice building in a nice area. I have a 40min walk to it or 10min bus ride. I like my colleagues. Sometimes you need to meet and solve problems face to face, and not have it be planned. I like dressing up a bit, not a full suit but nice pleated pants and OCBD/sweater/blazer. I have a shift schedule, sometimes I am the only one in the office, that is bliss :) But my work is 1…

> I have a 40min walk to it or 10min bus ride Sounds like you are taking 80 minutes away from your family every day. I would not be so proud of that. And you'll likely regret it on your deathbed. #1 regret is not enough time with fanmily.

Most people do need time to shift focus from and to work. You can do groceries during that time, or administrative work like sending letters or going to the citizens office... .

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#78

Post by z3dd »

dmitrygr wrote: post #56
heraldgeezer wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I actually like the office? It is a nice building in a nice area. I have a 40min walk to it or 10min bus ride. I like my colleagues. Sometimes you need to meet and solve problems face to face, and not have it be planned. I like dressing up a bit, not a full suit but nice pleated pants and OCBD/sweater/blazer. I have a shift schedule, sometimes I am the only one in the office, that is bliss :) But my work is 1…

> I have a 40min walk to it or 10min bus ride Sounds like you are taking 80 minutes away from your family every day. I would not be so proud of that. And you'll likely regret it on your deathbed. #1 regret is not enough time with fanmily.

They'll likely have more time with the family because walking and being outside leads to a longer healthier life.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#79

Post by RigelKentaurus »

IMHO, the majority of companies have run out of high-value ideas to achieve growth. Having nowhere else to turn, executive leadership is clutching at straws and mandating RTO and similar "initiatives". These leaders think it's a productivity problem, while lack of strategy is the real culprit.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#80

Post by DHPersonal »

matchbok3 wrote: post #24
thewebguyd wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should an employer not be able to see what their employees are doing at work? There's a difference between visibility into work progress and just mass surveillance of all activity. The only metric that actually matters is the delivery of value. Monitoring isn't an effective way to lead. It only reinforces employees to optimize for "looking busy" rather than being effective. If you have to audit your employees daily…

I mean, maybe. But a company that spends all of it's time "surveilling" their employees rather than adding value will go out of business. So I'm not sure what the point really is when people bring this up when talking about WFH. If someone doesn't want to be surveilled at work they can quit, right?

Why continue the cycle of finding a job and quitting it for solvable problems instead of staying and solving the problem?
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