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Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

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Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#91

Post by jpxxx »

hnriot wrote: post #76
ricardobeat wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you're a space explorer, at the very edge of civilization and technology, pushing the human race forward and signing your name in history for the next thousand years.

but it's not really pushing anything, it's just a huge waste of money that would be better spent on developing technologies for extra-solar system travel. People living on a dead planet serves no purpose, it doesn't even increase the species potential for surviving cataclysmic events, because without an earth bases resupply any martian colony will be soon dead. Build spaceships that people can live on and head out of…

I cannot agree.

Physically getting to Mars and setting up camp is a challenge. Physically getting to another solar system and setting up camp is a challenge to the power of challenge. The numbers and difficulties are profoundly greater between the two.

Self sufficiency is entirely possible given enough energy, material, and care. We've managed to do it for four billion years on this planet. There's no reason it can't be done on another planet, or a ship as you mention.

I maintain that creating a stable-enough social structure that can survive offworld long-term seems to be most difficult part of the quest to leave Earth.

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#92

Post by maaku »

Osmium wrote: post #14

Apologies for being somewhat off-topic, but does anybody know if there are citizenship requirements for working at a place like SpaceX? I have a solid background in materials science and metallurgy from a world-class university, and find what Musk is doing very inspirational. After I finish my PhD, I'd love to be a part of it, but I'm British and I know with some companies in the industry there're citizenship require…

Yes, you must be a U.S. citizen. It's an ITAR restriction (google it) because essentially you'd be working on an intercontinental ballistic missile.

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#93

Post by jpxxx »

nickzarzycki wrote: post #89
jpxxx wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Elon Musk is a heroic man. His car company is a marvel, and his space program is spectacular. His unfettered ability to speak without a mouth full of funder's cock or a PR minder sitting in the room is refreshing. His visions are grounded in technical and physical reality, his powers of observation are keen, and he has the personality and resources it takes to organize people in service of great accomplishments…

>I am delighted You certainly don't sound like it.

I would sprint through a minefield to be on that first boat out. My wallpaper at one point in life was panoramic prints from the Opportunity rover. I wrote Kim Stanley Robinson a fan letter, signed with a chewed up gelly pen. I am utterly delighted.

But the hard part is extremely, extremely, extremely hard. It's not getting there, it's staying there. And scant few people are focusing on what it would actually look like and how it would actually work if we actually sent people offworld, which I very much want to happen. Mars500 needs to be Mars5000000 before this dream is real.

Honestly, if we could airlift people into the Sahel with a real-world replica of what would be going to Mars and they could make it a few years, I could die happy.

Elon Musk has the easy job in all this.

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#94

Post by maaku »

Osmium wrote: post #34
Macca wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a hard and fast rule. You must either be a US citizen or permanent resident. ITAR is the reason.

That's a real shame, but understandable. It's too bad they have to artificially restrict their talent pool like that.

Get on the track for citizenship. We in the aerospace industry have a long and glorious tradition of Americanizing engineers for space program.

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#95

Post by minikites »

flatline wrote: post #32

> The problem is that at a lot of big companies, process becomes a substitute for thinking. You’re encouraged to behave like a little gear in a complex machine. Frankly, it allows you to keep people who aren’t that smart, who aren’t that creative. Sounds like so many complaints about the enterprise software landscape, and has certainly proved to be true in my own experience. Codified processes usually start with the…

This is something I've been struggling with. I see the two paths to success being mutually exclusive; throw out process and go big or channel process into success.

See this link and the ensuing discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4727045

This view is to cultivate habits and work consistently and methodically every day.

Elon's view is to toss out process and dream big.

What is the best way to reconcile these two opinions? Is it a matter of scale (i.e. personal process but enterprise chutzpah?)

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#96

Post by sliverstorm »

hnriot wrote: post #76
ricardobeat wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you're a space explorer, at the very edge of civilization and technology, pushing the human race forward and signing your name in history for the next thousand years.

but it's not really pushing anything, it's just a huge waste of money that would be better spent on developing technologies for extra-solar system travel. People living on a dead planet serves no purpose, it doesn't even increase the species potential for surviving cataclysmic events, because without an earth bases resupply any martian colony will be soon dead. Build spaceships that people can live on and head out of…

Colonizing Mars serves the purpose of developing and proving out the ability to colonize.

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#97

Post by rdl »

nova wrote: post #84
ballooney wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of industries do this. Patents are useful when it's obvious what your idea is, and where it's easy for people/competitors to have have a poke inside. Like a vacuum cleaner or a non-reflective mobile-phone screen coating, or one-click or something like that. But for industries where that's not the case, like rockets (my current) or to pick another example from a previous job, magnetic bearings for sub-sea tubo-ma…

So, in really complex and advanced stuff, patents aren't worth it and companies revert to trade secrets and the take-the-secret-to-the-tomb approach, the very same thing the existence of patents is intended to avoid. And in more accessible industries, where knowledge is abundant, costs low and independent reinvention highly probable, patents stall and block and create monopolies and in general cause economic damage i…

Well, or industries where disclosure is mandated (pharmaceutical and medical devices) by regulatory concerns, providing some additional protection (through patents) to compensate does seem to make sense.

But there are a lot of issues with pharma patents, too, like evergreening old drugs by combining two existing about-to-expire into a new drug, or getting approved for a new on-label use, etc. (including really cynical stuff, like initially patenting a drug for use in one patient population (say, white people?) and then doing a new study and re-patenting for another specific population (asians, etc.), where there was never any reason to suspect the drug, disease, method of action, etc. would be different.

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#99

Post by dbaupp »

jpxxx wrote: post #52

The complexity of getting to Mars is nothing compared to the complexity of creating a social unit that can survive and thrive on another planet. Specifically, an Antarctic planet covered in chlorinated brominated rusty dust with essentially no air pressure or atmospheric water, a dim sun, rotten weather, two ugly little moons, and 57,600,000 millisecond ping times. No chance to ever feel fresh air on your face, no ch…

I think you are just imagining a worst case scenario.

Why is any point of this true:

No chance to ever feel fresh air on your face, no chance to go swimming, never meeting a stranger until they're suddenly your neighbors for life, no chance to ever get away and start anew, and no chance to go back to Earth.

The fresh air one maybe, but there's no particular reason the chemical and physical make-up of Earth air can't be recreated.

Swimming can happen in a swimming pool and fake/indoor beaches exist.

You can move with people you already know; anyway, isn't "never meeting a stranger until you're living next to them" the standard procedure for moving house on Earth?

There's no reason that one can't move around, even back to Earth. They did get to Mars/other planet in the first place.

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#100

Post by 3JPLW »

danielweber wrote: post #64
hi wrote: post #5

If you have't already seen it, Kevin Rose interviews Elon Musk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-s_3b5fRd8 Also, Neil deGrasse Tyson talks about if there was a space race with China the US would be on Mars in 18 months: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=c... It would be truly amazing if a private company was the first to set foot on another planet.

Mars in 18 months Well, we'd have to wait 2 years for a launch window, but I agree that the US will stop dicking around with zero-g studies when we get scared that China might beat us there. NASA is probably too risk-averse with human life, and China is too risk-accepting. They once wiped out an entire peasant village in a rocket failure (and tried to cover it up). EDIT : I had to watch that video to the very end to…

> They once wiped out an entire peasant village in a rocket failure (and tried to cover it up).

Wow, I had never heard of anything about this. Wikipedia seems to be very risk averse to stating much more than the official record of 6 deaths and 57 injuries[0], and I couldn't find a good text source in my quick search. This metafilter discussion is good, though, with many links to videos and other sources[1].

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelsat_708

[1]: http://www.metafilter.com/90280/The-worst-spacerelated-disas...

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