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I resigned from OpenAI

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Re: I resigned from OpenAI

#121

Post by kelseyfrog »

Towaway69 wrote: post #116
kelseyfrog wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why have them if they don't mean anything?

That’s the result of equating survival with earning money. Western societies have done a good job of ensuring that. As long as morals aren’t equated to either to money or survival, they lose their meaning and become nice to have.

I know that's the result.

My question is, given that result, why continue to have them if they don't influence one's choices? You're making a case that our current economic system is incompatible with having morals.

Re: I resigned from OpenAI

#122

Post by slopinthebag »

kennywinker wrote: post #117
slopinthebag wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering the agreement Anthropic has with Palintar, you could say the exact same about employees working at Anthropic. Edit: Google, too. Microsoft with its Israel and US Gov ties. Probably most of big tech tbh. How do you recommend we view these employees from an ethical perspective?

Are they working on building tech that is being used for weapons or mass surveilance? Like yes Microsoft has contracts with israel, but their entire business is not centered around those contracts. If you help build a better ai for openai, it will be used for war and control. If you help build a better version of one of the 10,000 things microsoft makes, that’s not definitely going to be used for war and control. Not…

> Are they working on building tech that is being used for weapons or mass surveilance?

Weird how that seems to apply to the other tech companies, but for OpenAI it's just "Anybody who stays at openai"

Someone at Google working on Gemini CLI is clear morally, but someone at OpenAI working on Codex is acting immoral? Seems like a clear double standard.

Re: I resigned from OpenAI

#123

Post by kennywinker »

ed_mercer wrote: post #19
kennywinker wrote: post #16

Anybody who stays at openai is signing on to build machines that will be used to kill innocent people and control people who think that’s a bad idea.

I’m worried that China will build said killing machines and that we’ll be unprepared.

Of course! The only way to fight ai powered killing machines and mass surveilance is to make ai powred killing machines and do mass surveillance. It’s so simple, i don’t know why i didn’t think of it!

But seriously - you are describing the kind of thinking that caused ww1, and the nuclear arms race that almost caused human extinction. It’s a bad idea that goes bad places.

Re: I resigned from OpenAI

#124

Post by kennywinker »

slopinthebag wrote: post #122
kennywinker wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they working on building tech that is being used for weapons or mass surveilance? Like yes Microsoft has contracts with israel, but their entire business is not centered around those contracts. If you help build a better ai for openai, it will be used for war and control. If you help build a better version of one of the 10,000 things microsoft makes, that’s not definitely going to be used for war and control. Not…

> Are they working on building tech that is being used for weapons or mass surveilance? Weird how that seems to apply to the other tech companies, but for OpenAI it's just "Anybody who stays at openai" Someone at Google working on Gemini CLI is clear morally, but someone at OpenAI working on Codex is acting immoral? Seems like a clear double standard.

No i’d actually say those are both deeply morally questionable jobs. Not just because of the weapons and mass surveillance angles either.

Is one worse than the other? Not clearly. They are both helping build tools that are causing environmental and economic destruction, and they’re both building things likely to be used for violence and control. Idk if gemini has been tapped by any defense departments, but that would be the only subtle distinction i can see (has it happened yet, how hard will the company resist unrestricted use).

Not sure how you read my comment and came to this whack conclusion.

Re: I resigned from OpenAI

#125

Post by reverius42 »

Aurornis wrote: post #120
Towaway69 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the result of equating survival with earning money. Western societies have done a good job of ensuring that. As long as morals aren’t equated to either to money or survival, they lose their meaning and become nice to have.

> That’s the result of equating survival with earning money. Western societies have done a good job of ensuring that. OpenAI engineers with vested shares are not worried about having enough money to survive. This is a lame attempt to shoe-horn unrelated political talking points and “Western society bad” into a conversation about highly paid engineers who will have no problem putting food on the table.

I wonder to what extent a lot of people in this discussion have no idea how high OpenAI's salary ranges are.

Re: I resigned from OpenAI

#126

Post by Towaway69 »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #121
Towaway69 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the result of equating survival with earning money. Western societies have done a good job of ensuring that. As long as morals aren’t equated to either to money or survival, they lose their meaning and become nice to have.

I know that's the result. My question is, given that result, why continue to have them if they don't influence one's choices? You're making a case that our current economic system is incompatible with having morals.

Morals are there so that folks go to church with their families on Sunday, have an affair with their sectaries during the week and drink too much with their mates on Friday night because they feel bad about their moral choices.

Re: I resigned from OpenAI

#127

Post by reverius42 »

ido wrote: post #105
Aurornis wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“It’s not X, it’s Y” is a common ChatGPT trope used to give a sense of depth to a statement but the specific contrast is generally murky like this. This Tweet was either written by ChatGPT or heavily influenced by ChatGPT style.

Seeing as the guy worked at OpenAI maybe it's the other way around?

Not a guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caitlin_Kalinowski

Re: I resigned from OpenAI

#128

Post by kennywinker »

nirui wrote: post #83
kennywinker wrote: post #16

Anybody who stays at openai is signing on to build machines that will be used to kill innocent people and control people who think that’s a bad idea.

A lot of people despite the idea of killing, but as technology advances, and the cost of weapon systems increases, it is less and less likely that these expensive systems will be used to target innocent people, since doing so is likely a waste of resources. On the other hand, usually it is those less-advanced weapons that inflects most mass casualties. Some country can perform a successful head hunt in the span of an…

> the cost of weapon systems increases, it is less and less likely that these expensive systems will be used to target innocent peopl

Skeptical that’s true. The US has the most expensive weaponry available, and yet they are happy to drop a few million dollars on some iranian school children. It could be true, but i don’t think it is - if nothing else based on the stereotype of the rich kids who totals their parents car.

> Some country can perform a successful head hunt in the span of an afternoon tea party, while some other country have to level cities for few years and yet still fails to even touch the opposition leader

Again, skeptical. The US is happy to share its tech with israel, yet they are the ones levelling cities for years with no perceptable impact on leadership.

> then why do we also invented the career of professional police force?

Historically? To protect the property of the rich from the people they stole it from.

> forcing their own people to wear an obeisant smelling face mask

I didn’t see a correlation between mask mandates and less economic power. China, for instance, had quite severe covid restrictions and yet they are the kind of more-advanced nation you speak of. Most of latin america had virtually no restriction, and they are also “less advanced” wrt ai weapons.

Also, where on earth still has mask restrictions? Find a new grievance, please.

Re: I resigned from OpenAI

#129

Post by Towaway69 »

Aurornis wrote: post #120
Towaway69 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the result of equating survival with earning money. Western societies have done a good job of ensuring that. As long as morals aren’t equated to either to money or survival, they lose their meaning and become nice to have.

> That’s the result of equating survival with earning money. Western societies have done a good job of ensuring that. OpenAI engineers with vested shares are not worried about having enough money to survive. This is a lame attempt to shoe-horn unrelated political talking points and “Western society bad” into a conversation about highly paid engineers who will have no problem putting food on the table.

I was responding to a question on why have morals if they have no application.

If don’t like this example, how about folks going to church on Sundays listening to the Christian morals on not killing each other and during the week, these same folks work at the DoW organising wars around the world.

Or the politician taking lobbyists money. Or those folks who engage in recreational drug use while fighting a “war on drugs”.

There are many examples of morals playing second fiddle to the broader world around us.

Re: I resigned from OpenAI

#130

Post by cindyllm »

Towaway69 wrote: post #129
Aurornis wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That’s the result of equating survival with earning money. Western societies have done a good job of ensuring that. OpenAI engineers with vested shares are not worried about having enough money to survive. This is a lame attempt to shoe-horn unrelated political talking points and “Western society bad” into a conversation about highly paid engineers who will have no problem putting food on the table.

I was responding to a question on why have morals if they have no application. If don’t like this example, how about folks going to church on Sundays listening to the Christian morals on not killing each other and during the week, these same folks work at the DoW organising wars around the world. Or the politician taking lobbyists money. Or those folks who engage in recreational drug use while fighting a “war on drug…

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