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Jolla phone – a full-stack European alternative

commerce.jolla.com

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Re: Jolla phone – a full-stack European alternative

#201

Post by Hackbraten »

femto wrote: post #27
joe_mamba wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is similar to LineageOS, then it's always potentially only a matter of time until some banking and payment apps stop working due to failing security attestation pushed by a Google update. We need native apps that pass attestation out of the box for that phone/OS, not relying on hacks that may or may not work in the future. This is not good UX and it poisons the well if you push users to a new platform then th…

Beats me why banks can't use a FIDO2 enabled web site.

Because FIDO2 is not enough for non-tech-savvy people. The main issue is potential confusion about what transaction they’re actually signing. For example, a malicious browser extension can pretend the site sends money to X while actually sending it to Y.

The European PSD2 directive mandates that the 2FA scheme must let the user see what they’re about to sign. At the very least, that includes the amount and part of the recipient’s IBAN. FIDO2 doesn’t have that.

It’s the reason I own a device that looks like this [0]. Without it, I wouldn’t be able to transfer money at all due to the lack of banking apps that work on Linux phones.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip_Authentication_Program

Re: Jolla phone – a full-stack European alternative

#202

Post by tossandthrow »

wolvesechoes wrote: post #147
tossandthrow wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it had any marketing power, people would say that also.

It doesn't have, because no one sane thinks there is some Asia in other sense than geographical, yet many people believe there is some Europe that can have its own smartphone or other alternatives . In all practical ways Jolla is as foreign to Romanian or French person as Apple is, because their domestic officials and institutions have zero control over it the same way they have zero control over Apple. Unless, of co…

This is completely insane.

When you go out to eat your friends might express the desire to eat Asian food - that doesn't descrikinate between Japanese, Taiwanese, or Thai food.

Re: Jolla phone – a full-stack European alternative

#203

Post by postdoc74 »

pndy wrote: post #194
postdoc74 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you don't live in any European country. 2FA with cell phone has become compulsory for most banking procedures in Spain, to the point that I can even no longer assist my parents without being present there with them. Even when there is a web app, this randomly forces the user to confirm identity via phone. Every day this extends to more and more official proceduress these days (e.g. loging to EU pages, regional…

In two banks I was in in last 20 years before and after Payment Services Directive implementation, I was a secondary user to the account. I could do almost anything on the account which saved my mother lots of stress. It's enough for her to check balance and outgoing transactions and rest lies in my hands. Wouldn't that help you as well? In Poland we have a rather well-functioning digital services platform. Tho, two…

Many banks restrict the number and capabilities of secondary users. In the end I had to get a power of attorney, but for me observing these changes is just a warning. I see a pervasive use of a phone as means of authentication and the compulsory nature of hardware-bound digital IDs is penetrating our society. That is a barrier for elderly people but also for other groups, specially when those requirements are not accompanied by standards (i.e. why does a French person need to get a new ID to work with Spanish bureaucracy) and also because the phone itself is an unsubsidized cost. Not to mention when one is travelling to countries with locked networks, losing the phone or, closer to the topic here,the lack of trust on generic phone platforms, which enforces a duopoly (Google Android + iOS) preventing new technologies to enter the market.

Re: Jolla phone – a full-stack European alternative

#204

Post by Epa095 »

mariusor wrote: post #126
throw567643u8 wrote: post #71

What's the difference between this and the Fairphone?

Fairphone produces strictly hardware. Jolla produces software, SailfishOS. The hardware for this phone is sourced from third party vendors and then assembled and sold by Jolla.

(I agree with your comment. To add). Fairphone can be gotten with stock Android, but also "/e/OS", which is a fork of LineageOS, and presents itself as both more privacy focused and de-googled than stock Android.

So it also comes down to what kind of OS you want. I find SailfishOS interesting, but I also really like the hardware of the Fairphone.

Re: Jolla phone – a full-stack European alternative

#205

Post by actionfromafar »

joe_mamba wrote: post #99
actionfromafar wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but still, the driver was very intoxicated and ran over the guy, then put the car in reverse and ran over the guy again .

What does the driver matter if the guy was already dead?

Didn't look quite dead to me. Until after MS was done.

Re: Jolla phone – a full-stack European alternative

#206

Post by mrbn100ful »

Hackbraten wrote: post #200
mariusor wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wasn't modern when they released it in 2020. Jolla chose a little more pragmatism for their hardware in the hope that they actually sell phones to other people than 100% open-source purists. I find it funny when dudes like you go all "well awkshwally" on them...

I use my Librem 5 as a daily driver, and I’m certainly not an open source purist. What I do care about is that my phone isn’t going to run into obsolescence a few years down the road (due to hard kernel forks and YOLO’ed device drivers that are not going to be updated for newer kernels).

How is it nowadays ?

I can't find recent demos of the phone, everything is a few years old on YouTube now, and I know the device is still in development.

How usable the browser and camera are ?

Can you get a full day of battery ?

Re: Jolla phone – a full-stack European alternative

#207

Post by wolvesechoes »

tossandthrow wrote: post #202
wolvesechoes wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have, because no one sane thinks there is some Asia in other sense than geographical, yet many people believe there is some Europe that can have its own smartphone or other alternatives . In all practical ways Jolla is as foreign to Romanian or French person as Apple is, because their domestic officials and institutions have zero control over it the same way they have zero control over Apple. Unless, of co…

This is completely insane. When you go out to eat your friends might express the desire to eat Asian food - that doesn't descrikinate between Japanese, Taiwanese, or Thai food.

And yet no one goes to eat European food.

You just prove that European and Asian has completely different connotations, even if they both has seemingly geographical denotation. First is also used in political context, whereas second isn't. First is used when discussing alternative solutions to US-owned tech and services, and second is not.

No one goes out saying that Pad Thai is Asian alternative to freaking spaghetti, and people living across Asia should eat Pad Thai to get some food sovereignty.

Re: Jolla phone – a full-stack European alternative

#208

Post by kleiba »

postdoc74 wrote: post #172
kleiba wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Smartphone apps have unfortunately become a hard requirement for basic day-to-day activities. I've never owned a smartphone in my life and are not planning on getting one, and I'm going through life just fine.

Maybe you don't live in any European country. 2FA with cell phone has become compulsory for most banking procedures in Spain, to the point that I can even no longer assist my parents without being present there with them. Even when there is a web app, this randomly forces the user to confirm identity via phone. Every day this extends to more and more official proceduress these days (e.g. loging to EU pages, regional…

We actually moved to Europe a number of years ago, and have lived in two different countries here. In my experience, there's often alternatives for 2FA that they'll tell you about once they know that you do not own a phone.

Re: Jolla phone – a full-stack European alternative

#209

Post by joe_mamba »

actionfromafar wrote: post #205
joe_mamba wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does the driver matter if the guy was already dead?

Didn't look quite dead to me. Until after MS was done.

Define "not looking dead" to you. Look at their sales, share price, market share and profit trajectory in 2011. From the investors and bean counters perspective it's the very definition of dead. They were losing 11% market share in last year alone!!! How is that not dead?

MS actually prolonged Nokia's existence, since only they had the cash to burn on the impossible mission of catching up with Google and Apple ecosystem, while Nokia alone could not sustain those losses by itself.

Re: Jolla phone – a full-stack European alternative

#210

Post by ilu2026 »

mpol wrote: post #157
ilu2026 wrote: post #155

[flagged]

1. A company needs a positive cashflow to keep existing. 2. Closed parts of Sailfish are being opened up slowly (There are new owners). 3. The tablet was in 2015, 11 years ago. 4. They are not Russia owned anymore, but Finnish now.

1. Positive cashflow can be made in a honest way if they really wanted to make a difference. By now yhis project would boom and overtake apple and android, not the case. They even sold to Rostelecom and Yandex. 2. New owners? More open? Any evidence? 3. Time doesn’t fade facts.
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