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Jolla phone – a full-stack European alternative

commerce.jolla.com

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Re: Jolla phone – a full-stack European alternative

#111

Post by Normal_gaussian »

pbmonster wrote: post #69
sgerenser wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don’t need to specifically support “niche platforms,” which will never happen anyway. They just need to support the one, universal platform every device (be it phone, laptop or desktop) can always access, the web.

And they don't want to, because that experiment ran for around 20 years and resoundingly failed. Turns out it's really hard to stop the bottom quintile of users from entering all their credentials into just about any website that looks similar to what they are used to - and then their identity/money is just gone. Stopping those users without a trusted authority deciding which electron-wrapped websites are genuine is…

If the app truly just plumbed a webview and cert verification - which has been doable for over a decade - it would be very portable and this wouldn't be a problem.

The apps don't just do that though; they call into and use an awful lot of the system APIs for user tracking / semi-native experience / biometrics and probably a whole host of other things. Its the incompatibility in these that drags compatibility.

Re: Jolla phone – a full-stack European alternative

#113

Post by mytailorisrich »

mrbn100ful wrote: post #92
mytailorisrich wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're correct but even more it is a Chinese platform with a Chinese cellular stack that runs linux and on top of all that the apps software is Finnish (so "European"). It is a very misleading title, indeed. Edit: Sorry you got flagged to death. You should not post blasphemous comments ;)

Your Toyota made in Kentucky is Russian because it uses Siberian steel lol

You can disagree but at least try to make an analogy that makes a modicum of sense...

The main issue is that "Europe" is not able to make a phone. They have the choice between American and Chinese at large (mainland and Taiwan) platforms, including cellular stacks, and then most likely manufacturing in mainland China and/or via contractors like Foxconn (also Chinese sphere as from Taiwan).

So indeed, the "full stack" claim here is to be taken in the narrowest sense possible, i.e. the apps software on top of the Linux kernel (and still from other comments it seems they also use Android drivers).

Re: Jolla phone – a full-stack European alternative

#114

Post by pjmlp »

joe_mamba wrote: post #106
pjmlp wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet a judge would disagree on the inocence of the driver in such scenario.

You're missing the point to argue in bad faith. The point was the even if a drunk driver hadn't run over Nokia, they'd still be dead from the Android and iOS onslaught, doesn't matter who ran over their corpse after that. A judge won't make you a murderer for running over a corpse, just a drunk driver, this is such a weird hill to die on. BTW, we're still waiting on the Nokia insider details you were mentioning befor…

I won't spill any beans, some stuff is easy to find online, the other I usually keep my NDAs.

Nokia is still pretty much around, and owns where UNIX was born in case you missed that part of history.

While we had issues, the burning memo platform was the killer for the third party developer ecosystem, just coming around the hill to move from classical Symbian into Qt/PIPS, in a UNIX culture, to be told to go Windows.

Re: Jolla phone – a full-stack European alternative

#115

Post by Jhsto »

seba_dos1 wrote: post #60
u1hcw9nx wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually 'full stack' just means software. Here it means a true Linux phone (Sailfish OS) plus Android compatibility with sandboxing. The C2 model is made in Turkey from Asian parts. The new phone is manufactured in Asia, but the final assembly, QA, and software flashing are done in Finland. This isn't for people with a consumer mindset. It’s for people who want a Linux computer in their pocket, more privacy, and stil…

There are phones that can run "true Linux" out there, and there even are ports of Sailfish OS for some of them, but Jolla phones were never part of those and rely on Android drivers instead.

Seems that Jolla C2 can run "close-to" mainline kernel: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/mainline-linux-kernel-for-the...

Re: Jolla phone – a full-stack European alternative

#116

Post by mytailorisrich »

mahrain wrote: post #109
mytailorisrich wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're correct but even more it is a Chinese platform with a Chinese cellular stack that runs linux and on top of all that the apps software is Finnish (so "European"). It is a very misleading title, indeed. Edit: Sorry you got flagged to death. You should not post blasphemous comments ;)

Mediatek is a taiwanese company and the Dimensity 7100 platform includes the cellular stack.

Yes so the other Chinese... the point being that none of that is "European". I used "Chinese" on purpose to highlight the glaring issue with calling this "European alternative"...

Re: Jolla phone – a full-stack European alternative

#117

Post by tossandthrow »

wolvesechoes wrote: post #81
tossandthrow wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First, it is not European alternative - it is Finnish. _Europe_ is not a single country. What are you talking about? Is there a law of nature that you can only refer to origins in terms of countries. A Finnish alternative is, nyt extension, a European alternative.

It is not innocent like this. In this context European is not simply used as a geographical designation of origin. No one says that Samsung or Huawei phones are Asian alternatives to iPhone.

If it had any marketing power, people would say that also.

Re: Jolla phone – a full-stack European alternative

#118

Post by johanvts »

craftkiller wrote: post #104
johanvts wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could do both, but it does say “or whatever”, not “and”.

How would you have a user-configurable switch that physically disconnects things? The mechanism for that sounds complex. I'm not a hardware person, but I imagine you'd need to route the traces for each possible component to the switch and then have like a dip switch panel to control which behaviors are controlled by the switch. Either that or a software-controlled equivalent to a dip switch panel that can only be con…

Im not a hardware person either, but ex the button physically turns off the canera, and software polls for camera power and can respond

Re: Jolla phone – a full-stack European alternative

#119

Post by koiueo »

Zigurd wrote: post #110
pjmlp wrote: post #16

Nokia N900 was really great, Jolla has some of the former team people. I only jumped into Android after my Symbian phone died, and by then Symbian Belle, with QT and PIPS (PIPS Is POSIX on Symbian OS), it was already shapping great. That Burning Memo was really a downer.

"Burning the boats," in the form of getting rid of Jolla (and whatever happened to Meego) is one of those management aphorisms that needs to die. As it turns out, having an alternative to Windows phone would've been a better decision. No guarantee of success, but less of an irrecoverable failure at least. Where is that Elop guy now?

Enjoying his golden parachute

Re: Jolla phone – a full-stack European alternative

#120

Post by pbmonster »

Normal_gaussian wrote: post #111
pbmonster wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they don't want to, because that experiment ran for around 20 years and resoundingly failed. Turns out it's really hard to stop the bottom quintile of users from entering all their credentials into just about any website that looks similar to what they are used to - and then their identity/money is just gone. Stopping those users without a trusted authority deciding which electron-wrapped websites are genuine is…

If the app truly just plumbed a webview and cert verification - which has been doable for over a decade - it would be very portable and this wouldn't be a problem. The apps don't just do that though; they call into and use an awful lot of the system APIs for user tracking / semi-native experience / biometrics and probably a whole host of other things. Its the incompatibility in these that drags compatibility.

> The apps don't just do that though; they call into and use an awful lot of the system APIs for user tracking / semi-native experience / biometrics and probably a whole host of other things. Its the incompatibility in these that drags compatibility.

Both can be true. Many (most?) online banking apps are just shitty wrapped javascript, that also uses an awful lot of system APIs.

I'm using a couple of different banks, and not a single one has anything close to a native app. Because how nice would that be? Responsive interface (since it doesn't need to load every single view from the server), instant search over your transactions (since the DB can be cached locally), instant access to all the PDFs in your inbox... but no.

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