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Forstall Out; Ive Up

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Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#111

Post by coolnow »

bruceboughton wrote: post #96
krickle wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want widgets on the desktop and/or on the lock screen (as a developer api), sideloading applications, some way to store data accessable to any app, a phone number black or whitelist, and a way for users to allow an app to do arbitrary tasks in the background or refuse any app from doing the Apple-allowed tasks in the background. Oh, and keyboards, developers should be allowed to make keyboards. Then there are a ton…

As a counterpoint, I want none of those things.

Thanks for the insightful comment.

Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#112

Post by smackfu »

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #38
brudgers wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing is pretty certain. The decision to dump Google was probably made above Forestall's pay grade. I suspect that the decision to include Maps in the next release of iOS happened about the same time as the decision to dump the stock. Stock sale announced in May, Maps announced in June.

I wish this meme (that, in no uncertain terms, Apple dumped Google) woud die. This is a very large contract between two large, competing companies. If I were looking only at the impact of the iOS decision, I would have a hard time believing that Google didn't tell Apple to piss off, but I think even that reading is far too simplistic.

I don't know, I think "Apple dumped Google" is more likely. Google saying "no you cannot license our maps in the future" seems like it would have leaked out by now. Google probably did have terms they required for renewal that Apple felt were unacceptable though. Or Apple felt it wasn't a healthy relationship going forward.

Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#113

Post by brudgers »

sedev wrote: post #68
brudgers wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment is non-offensive and draws an analogy between two organizations which used propaganda effectively. Comparing Mr. Gruber's writings to those of fellow travelers is a legitimate comment on the possibility of editorial bias in the original article. I It is useful because it places the article within a larger historical context. It extends the content, and on HN, that is appropriate.

All right, let's go into specifics here. I strongly disagree with your description of the objectionable comment: * First, saying that it is "non-offensive" to compare someone to Stalin's regime (or more generally to the Soviet regimes) is so blatantly inaccurate that it's difficult to believe that you seriously advanced that claim. Let's set aside "offensive" and say merely that comparing someone to Stalin is in virt…

"Stalin's regime (or more generally to the Soviet regimes)"

For the record, I find comparisons to the DPRK much richer for satire.

Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#114

Post by tatsuke95 »

XaspR8d wrote: post #50
tatsuke95 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to do an "Explain like I'm 5" about skeuopmorphism vs path dependence ? I'm not sure I understand it in the context of device design. Edit: or are they talking specifically about app design?

The way I understand it is that skeuomorphism is about using design to elicit elements or interactions that formerly served a purpose (i.e. making a keyboard look like typewriter keys), whereas path-dependence is about current schemes whose continuing popularity is more due to a quirk of history that gave its use better returns rather than being proven against others (i.e. the QWERTY keyboard).

QWERTY, good example.

Thanks.

Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#115

Post by stcredzero »

bane wrote: post #84
stcredzero wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's not go for shiny kitsch, let's go for expensive sports car with a matte paint job The only cars I see with matte paint jobs are car modder's econoboxes, which look pretty kitsch.

https://www.google.com/search?q=matte+black&hl=en&sa...

This confirms it for me. Matte black paint jobs on cars show questionable taste.

Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#116

Post by Hari_Seldon »

fleitz wrote: post #72
bane wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm principally talking about look and feel. iOS looks and operates great, let's get that out of the way. But it's essentially the same core design that was laid out in 2007 + Androidish notifications + multitasking-lite. At a glance can the average user tell the difference between iOS 2 or 3 and 6? I acknowledge that that's not necessarily an entirely worthy goal in and of itself, but keeping a design focused produc…

That's the advantage to great design, it doesn't need to change. Every year Android/Windows comes out with a new design that's finally supposed to make it not suck. Go find a 1984 Mac, look into the top right hand corner, whats there?

Agreed, I don't see the need for change, the incremental updates have gotten us to the point where iOS functions very well. If you're looking for innovative UI there are over 600,000 apps, many of them with amazing and novel UIs very well suited to the app's function.

Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#117

Post by spinchange »

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #38
brudgers wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing is pretty certain. The decision to dump Google was probably made above Forestall's pay grade. I suspect that the decision to include Maps in the next release of iOS happened about the same time as the decision to dump the stock. Stock sale announced in May, Maps announced in June.

I wish this meme (that, in no uncertain terms, Apple dumped Google) woud die. This is a very large contract between two large, competing companies. If I were looking only at the impact of the iOS decision, I would have a hard time believing that Google didn't tell Apple to piss off, but I think even that reading is far too simplistic.

Wasn't it previously released or quoted from Eric Schmidt that Apple terminated their Google Maps contract far ahead of schedule? Jobs said he would spend every dollar in the bank and his last breath going thermonuclear on Google/Android so the meme, as it were, didn't just appear out of thin air.

Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#118

Post by jroseattle »

This sets up an environment that Cook prefers, IMHO. A clear-cut decision maker about all things product design, Ive replaces Jobs. Inasmuch as a Cook/Ive pairing can be beneficial, they're missing Jobs as the great overseer. I think this is not finished playing out.

As has been seen, mistakes aren't really tolerated when Apple's name is on the line -- someone almost always pays for it with their job. Apple has started to show cracks in the armor, and I imagine we're going to see a few more events of non-perfectness in the future. (Entirely reasonable, but nonetheless those that contribute to an image.)

If things don't go Apple-esque perfect in the future, I wonder who starts pointing fingers?

Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#119

Post by redbad »

usea wrote: post #82
sedev wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All right, let's go into specifics here. I strongly disagree with your description of the objectionable comment: * First, saying that it is "non-offensive" to compare someone to Stalin's regime (or more generally to the Soviet regimes) is so blatantly inaccurate that it's difficult to believe that you seriously advanced that claim. Let's set aside "offensive" and say merely that comparing someone to Stalin is in virt…

Comparing two things is different from equating them. It's not offensive to compare Stalin to anything, including those things you hold sacred. It doesn't imply they are equal in all respects, and any inference to that effect on your part is in error.

    > Comparing two things is different from equating them.
True, obviously.

    > It's not offensive to compare Stalin to anything,
False.

    > including those things you hold sacred. It doesn't
    > imply they are equal in all respects, and any inference 
    > to that effect on your part is in error.
When you compare X to Hitler, or Stalin, or Pol Pot, or the devil, you're necessarily invoking an element of offense to make your broader point. Rightly or wrongly, those figures are inexorably bound to offend. It's not possible to simply assert that away.

Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#120

Post by bluesaunders »

fleitz wrote: post #72
bane wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm principally talking about look and feel. iOS looks and operates great, let's get that out of the way. But it's essentially the same core design that was laid out in 2007 + Androidish notifications + multitasking-lite. At a glance can the average user tell the difference between iOS 2 or 3 and 6? I acknowledge that that's not necessarily an entirely worthy goal in and of itself, but keeping a design focused produc…

That's the advantage to great design, it doesn't need to change. Every year Android/Windows comes out with a new design that's finally supposed to make it not suck. Go find a 1984 Mac, look into the top right hand corner, whats there?

Nothing...? http://www.computerhistory.org/atchm//wp-content/uploads/201...

Though your point is clear. Mac OS X is very clearly reminiscent of this interface.

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