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Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

nytimes.com

111–120 of 155 posts

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#111
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that development and advancement of nuclear weapons had not, in fact, been contained.

How do you know that the list wouldn't have been longer otherwise?

Sweden would have had its own nuclear bombs if not for the political opposition. That's at least one more that would have been on the list.

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#112
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that development and advancement of nuclear weapons had not, in fact, been contained.

How do you know that the list wouldn't have been longer otherwise?

will AI non-proliferation treaty make any difference when twenty countries possess weaponized superintelligence?

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#113

I understand the vision, but how does this work on a global scale. e.g. American employees refuse to build this, but China's don't. Edit: I originally ended with "What would have happened if Germany had a nuclear bomb and America didn't?", but I think it distracted from the point I was trying to make so moving this to an edit. I'm not trying to ask "is the US the bad guy". I'm trying to ask how to balance personal an…

Is there any reason to think that autonomous weapons are a critical strategic capability? It's hard to see what an unpiloted drone can do that a remotely piloted drone can't, other than perhaps human rights violations.

The simple version: Weapons systems are quickly advancing to the point where many of them can navigate and operate independent of human control. The obvious question here is at which point do we give these platforms release authority for lethal weapons. It becomes impractical to require (or even imagine, really) there to be a human "pilot" operating every single drone when you have hundreds or thousands of them operating in theater. That's really what this is about.

Think of it this way: mines installed in the seabed in wars past were "dumb", in that a passing ship had to happen into it. Imagine systems deployed underwater that were mobile, contained multiple torpedoes, and could strike warships with little to no warning given their small acoustic signature. It's the same principal as a mine (you leave it one spot, hope an enemy ship comes by), but the capabilities are far more advanced. If the system is not at least semi-autonomous than it might as well be a dumb mine again.

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#114
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that development and advancement of nuclear weapons had not, in fact, been contained.

How do you know that the list wouldn't have been longer otherwise?

The point is that the list isn't longer because the United States and USSR chose to not make it longer.

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#115
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to give a shout out here to an episode of the excellent podcast Hardcore History , specifically Episode 59: The Destroyer of Worlds [1]. The development of the atomic bomb created a debate in American policy circles about how the US should react. Within a few years, the same debate occurred over developing thermonuclear weapons. The same question kept coming up: what if the enemy has these weapons and we do…

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And maybe you can read a book about adding to the conversation instead of navel gazing oh superior intelligent one who has read so many books but can't add a comment or reference a book to point to a concept that could help add to the shared pool meaning.

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#116
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> every change starts with a few people, and then it grows your opinion is defense contracts are bad my opinion is defense contracts are good who is correct? probably me since 99.9% of Googlers won’t leave over this

[flagged]

He’s certainly mostly right about

> me since 99.9% of Googlers won’t leave over this

Of course maybe not 99.9% but almost certainly >= 95%

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say stay, and do a subtlety bad job there.

Sabotage? You are openly advocating the internal sabotage of US defense capability?

If the US government is treating its constitution hardly any better than toilet paper (and it clearly is) that is not an unreasonable thing to do.

If the current trajectory continues those “defensive” capabilities will obviously be used against the citizens paying for them..

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#118

"Don't do evil" Oh, wait...

Defending one's own country is not evil, no matter how much money Qatar pours into Western social media influencers.

> Defending one's own country is not evil

What if the your country’s government is the biggest threat to it, though?

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Defending one's own country is not evil, no matter how much money Qatar pours into Western social media influencers.

It is when "defense" means invasion and subjugation of other countries. All countries pose their military operations as "defense." Inquiring minds should ask if a country surrounded on sides by two oceans with two pacified neighbors has any real threats or merely opportunities for cheap labor, market access, and mineral rights abroad. This has been going on for a very long time (read what Smedley Butler said in "War…

US did rename the Department of Defense to Department of War so not sure how much posing is left..

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#120
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think they’re refusing all military involvement. Autonomous-decision making is the problematic part.

The US military has deployed fully autonomous weapons systems since 1979. If you're worried about that then you're a little late.

Yes, but we both know this is not the same kind of “autonomous weapons”.
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