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Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

nytimes.com

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Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#41

Post by lordofgibbons »

dotancohen wrote: post #22
cheonn638 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> every change starts with a few people, and then it grows your opinion is defense contracts are bad my opinion is defense contracts are good who is correct? probably me since 99.9% of Googlers won’t leave over this

Why is there any controversy about defending one's nation being "good" or "bad"? I can not believe what I am reading here, and how the single comment supporting defending one's country is so heavily downvoted. Qatar has poisoned Western online communities such that all defence of the United States is considered taboo? I don't even live in the US and I am frightened by what I see here.

The controversy isn't about defending one's country, it's about you and the parent comment author assuming what this is all about without reading the article.

The core of the issue about autonomous use of AI in mass surveillance of Americans and autonomous use of AI in automated weapons that make kill decisions. Anthropic is perfectly fine with working with the War Department and "defending one's nation".

But they are not okay with their AI being used to make a mockery of the 4th amendment and making automated kill/no-kill decisions about actual human lives.

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#42

Post by j16sdiz »

CasualSuperman wrote: post #33
Xeronate wrote: post #26

I understand the vision, but how does this work on a global scale. e.g. American employees refuse to build this, but China's don't. Edit: I originally ended with "What would have happened if Germany had a nuclear bomb and America didn't?", but I think it distracted from the point I was trying to make so moving this to an edit. I'm not trying to ask "is the US the bad guy". I'm trying to ask how to balance personal an…

With current leadership, I think we're closer to Germany in this analogy.

This is not answering the question.. and HN ain't US only.

You can say the same for any other country... What if Japan employee refuse, but American want that anyway? What if China employee refuse, but Russia employee want that anyway?

The implication are still the same -- social, culture, jurisdiction, national interest, company interest don't share the same boundary and don't align on their priorities.

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#43

Post by b65e8bee43c2ed0 »

CasualSuperman wrote: post #33
Xeronate wrote: post #26

I understand the vision, but how does this work on a global scale. e.g. American employees refuse to build this, but China's don't. Edit: I originally ended with "What would have happened if Germany had a nuclear bomb and America didn't?", but I think it distracted from the point I was trying to make so moving this to an edit. I'm not trying to ask "is the US the bad guy". I'm trying to ask how to balance personal an…

With current leadership, I think we're closer to Germany in this analogy.

my brother in Christ, what do you think the 40's America was like?

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#44

Post by tokioyoyo »

j16sdiz wrote: post #42
CasualSuperman wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With current leadership, I think we're closer to Germany in this analogy.

This is not answering the question.. and HN ain't US only. You can say the same for any other country... What if Japan employee refuse, but American want that anyway? What if China employee refuse, but Russia employee want that anyway? The implication are still the same -- social, culture, jurisdiction, national interest, company interest don't share the same boundary and don't align on their priorities.

I don’t think they’re refusing all military involvement. Autonomous-decision making is the problematic part.

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#45

Post by Analemma_ »

moogly wrote: post #11

If we're going to have to rely on self-regulation for this, we're already doomed.

Sure, but we’re currently so fucked that even self-regulation is clearly superior to kneeling to the Mad King and his drunkard Secretary of War.

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#46

Post by mikestorrent »

moogly wrote: post #11

If we're going to have to rely on self-regulation for this, we're already doomed.

There is only self regulation, ultimately, at the top. I think it's still progress to see these groups specifically call out their moral hesitations, even if it doesn't go anywhere - it gives people ground to realize that others share their concerns. All movements, all progress starts from people putting their stance out there and getting a conversation going around the topic; that builds mindshare and eventually a demand for change.

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#47

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

Xeronate wrote: post #26

I understand the vision, but how does this work on a global scale. e.g. American employees refuse to build this, but China's don't. Edit: I originally ended with "What would have happened if Germany had a nuclear bomb and America didn't?", but I think it distracted from the point I was trying to make so moving this to an edit. I'm not trying to ask "is the US the bad guy". I'm trying to ask how to balance personal an…

Is there any reason to think that autonomous weapons are a critical strategic capability? It's hard to see what an unpiloted drone can do that a remotely piloted drone can't, other than perhaps human rights violations.

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#48

Post by skybrian »

Xeronate wrote: post #26

I understand the vision, but how does this work on a global scale. e.g. American employees refuse to build this, but China's don't. Edit: I originally ended with "What would have happened if Germany had a nuclear bomb and America didn't?", but I think it distracted from the point I was trying to make so moving this to an edit. I'm not trying to ask "is the US the bad guy". I'm trying to ask how to balance personal an…

Not to worry, xAI would do it even if Google didn't.

Also, Anthropic didn't actually refuse to work on all military stuff. They have some conditions, which isn't the same thing.

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#49

Post by OrvalWintermute »

Google has been evil for at least a decade, if not longer than that.

This is just pigslop masquerading as a moral stand.

What happened to the OG Google that cared about users, prioritized honest search, fast performance, and didn't murder pages with ads?

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#50

Post by dataflow »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #19
sidibe wrote: post #10

I remember they successfully got Google out of a military contract in the first admin (and briefly vilified by the right for that). that's not going to work now. Workers have a lot less power and the CEO is buddies with Trump

As the article says, the workers didn't petition the CEO, they petitioned the head of Google AI who's already expressed solidarity with Anthropic. If they can convince Jeff Dean, I don't think Sundar necessarily gets a say; it's a lot easier to stick your head in the sand and ignore things than to fire one of your most widely respected engineers because he won't help the Pentagon build Terminator robots.

> it's a lot easier to stick your head in the sand and ignore things than to fire one of your most widely respected engineers because he won't help the Pentagon build Terminator robots.

Wouldn't it be more like he would leave on his own and the company would keep moving along? Why would they fire him?

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