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I don't know how you get here from “predict the next word”

grumpy-economist.com

61–70 of 275 posts

Re: I don't know how you get here from “predict the next word”

#61
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're saying LLMs do better when outputting English than other languages, an assertion I'm not really able to test but have heard elsewhere.

and this is somehow not related to the size and availability of corpora in English?

No, I'm quite sure that's why it's better.

Re: I don't know how you get here from “predict the next word”

#62
post #33

> Nothing you write will matter if it is not quickly adopted to the training dataset. That is my take too, I was surprised to see how many people object to their works being trained on. It's how you can leave your mark, opening access for AI, and in the last 25 years opening to people (no restrictions on access, being indexed in Google).

People who produced the works LLMs are trained on are not compensated for the value they are now producing, and their skills are increasingly less valued in a world with LLMs. The value the LLMs are producing is being captured by employees of AI companies who are driving up rent in the Bay Area, and driving up the cost of electricity and water everywhere else. Your surprise to people’s objections makes sense if you c…

> People who produced the works LLMs are trained on are not compensated for the value they are now producing

the value being extracted via LLM techniques is new value, which did not previously exist. The producer(s) of the old data had an asking price, which was taken by the LLM trainers. They cannot make the argument that since the LLM is producing new value, they should retroactively update their old asking price for their works.

They could update their asking price for any new works they produce. They also have the right to ask their works not be used for training, etc. But they cannot ask their old works to be paid for by the new uses in LLM in a retroactive way.

Re: I don't know how you get here from “predict the next word”

#63
post #49

The "predict the next word" to a current llm is at the same level as a "transistor" (or gate) is to a modern cpu. I don't understand llms enough to expand on that comparison, but I can see how having layers above that feed the layers below to "predict the next word" and use the output to modify the input leading to what we see today. It is turtles all the way down.

Humans are future predictors. Our vision systems, our mental models of our careers. People that predict the future tend to do well financially. Now the machines are getting better than we are. It's exciting and a little bit terrifying. We were polymers that evolved intelligence. Now the sand is becoming smart.

>Now the machines are getting better than we are

Then AI companies should stop looking for investors and instead play stock markets with all that predictive powers!

Re: I don't know how you get here from “predict the next word”

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You're implicitly assuming that what you asked the LLM to do is unrepresented in the training data. This is just as stuck in a moment in time as "they only do next word prediction" What does this even mean anymore? Are we supposed to believe that a review of this paper that wasn't written when that model (It's putatively not an "LLM", but IDK enough about it to be pushy there) was trained? Does that even make sense?…

Statistical models generalize. If you train a model that f(x) = 5 and f(x+1) = 6, the number 7 doesn't have to exist in the training data for the model to give you a correct answer for f(x+2) Similarly, if there are millions of academic papers and thousands of peer reviews in the training data, a review of this exact paper doesn't need to be in there for the LLM to write something convincing. (I say "convincing" rath…

> If you train a model that f(x) = 5 and f(x+1) = 6, the number 7 doesn't have to exist in the training data for the model to give you a correct answer for f(x+2)

This is an interesting claim to me. Are there any models that exist that have been trained with a (single digit) number omitted from the training data?

If such a model does exist, how does it represent the answer? (What symbol does it use for the '7'?)

Re: I don't know how you get here from “predict the next word”

#65

The whole next word thing is interesting isn't it. I like to see it with Dennett's "Competence and comprehension" lens. You can predict the next word competently with shallow understanding. But you could also do it well with understanding or comprehension of the full picture. A mental model that allows you to predict better. Are the AIs stumbling into these mental models? Seems like it. However, because these are suc…

Searle's Chinese Room experiment but without knowing what's in the room, and when you try to peek in you just see a cloud of fog and are left to wonder if it's just a guy with that really big dictionary or something more intelligent.

Re: I don't know how you get here from “predict the next word”

#67
post #25

Is this an ad? Seems like it. The text is not really what the headline suggests.

Do you think the submitter intended this as an ad? His post history doesn't seem suspicious.

Or do you think article's author wrote this an an ad? He's a reputable academic who seems impressed with an AI tool he used and is honestly sharing his thoughts.

For reference he published the 80 page inflation mini-book 2 weeks ago asking for feedback: https://www.grumpy-economist.com/p/inflation

Re: I don't know how you get here from “predict the next word”

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You're implicitly assuming that what you asked the LLM to do is unrepresented in the training data. This is just as stuck in a moment in time as "they only do next word prediction" What does this even mean anymore? Are we supposed to believe that a review of this paper that wasn't written when that model (It's putatively not an "LLM", but IDK enough about it to be pushy there) was trained? Does that even make sense?…

Statistical models generalize. If you train a model that f(x) = 5 and f(x+1) = 6, the number 7 doesn't have to exist in the training data for the model to give you a correct answer for f(x+2) Similarly, if there are millions of academic papers and thousands of peer reviews in the training data, a review of this exact paper doesn't need to be in there for the LLM to write something convincing. (I say "convincing" rath…

I think the relevant question is: can a statistical model (or a transformer, in particular) generalize to general reasoning ability?

Re: I don't know how you get here from “predict the next word”

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You're implicitly assuming that what you asked the LLM to do is unrepresented in the training data. This is just as stuck in a moment in time as "they only do next word prediction" What does this even mean anymore? Are we supposed to believe that a review of this paper that wasn't written when that model (It's putatively not an "LLM", but IDK enough about it to be pushy there) was trained? Does that even make sense?…

“Represented in the training data” does not mean “represented as a whole in the training data”. If A and B are separately in the training data, the model can provide a result when A and B occur in the input because the model has made a connection between A and B in the latent space.

Yes. I’m saying that “it’s just in the training data” is a cognitive containment of these models which is incomplete. You can insist that’s what’s happening, but you’ll be left unable to explain what’s going on beyond truisms.

Re: I don't know how you get here from “predict the next word”

#70

The whole next word thing is interesting isn't it. I like to see it with Dennett's "Competence and comprehension" lens. You can predict the next word competently with shallow understanding. But you could also do it well with understanding or comprehension of the full picture. A mental model that allows you to predict better. Are the AIs stumbling into these mental models? Seems like it. However, because these are suc…

Given their failure on novel logic problems, generation of meaningless text, tendency to do things like delete tests and incompetence at simple mathematics, it seems very unlikely they have built any sort of world model. It’s remarkable how competent they are given the way they work.

Predict the next word is a terrible summary of what these machines do though, they certainly do more than that, but there are significant limitations.

‘Reasoning’ etc are marketing terms and we should not trust the claims made by companies who make these models.

The Turing test had too much confidence in humans it seems.

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