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Scott Forstall leaves Apple

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Re: Scott Forstall leaves Apple

#261

Post by alwaysinshade »

waiwai933 wrote: post #244
nilsbunger wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why did someone like this Dixon guy get in to begin with? He seemed like an odd choice from day 1, but I figured maybe apple knew something the rest or us didn't. Apparently not. Apple retail head is one of the most desirable executive positions on the planet. Why couldn't they recruit a true superstar? I'm a little confused and worried ...

> Apple retail head is one of the most desirable executive positions on the planet. Why couldn't they recruit a true superstar? I think the problem is identifying the superstar in the first place. Quite frankly, there is no company whose retail comes close to Apple, and so there isn't anyone who has a track record of being able to do the SVP Retail job. In addition, the Apple SVP Retail job is different from head of…

> I think the problem is identifying the superstar in the first place.

I'd look towards fashion - for example the Japanese clothing store Uniqlo [1]. Their stores are quite similar to Apple's in terms of layout and space, the way that they encourage you to come in and look around, and they always have helpful service on hand. The problem is Tadashi Yanai [2] is too rich and successful to leave his current post.

I see a parallel with Apple making (subjectively) luxurious electronic devices available at prices for the masses the way Uniqlo makes (subjectively) luxurious fashion available at prices for the masses. I grabbed a bunch of French linen shirts in Tokyo for ~25 AUD each (though the AUD was doing well against the JPY at the time).

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniqlo [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadashi_Yanai

Re: Scott Forstall leaves Apple

#262

Post by Firehed »

mcgroarty wrote: post #161
nostromo wrote: post #101

Does anyone but me here listen incessantly to podcasts? The latest Podcasts App from iTunes is a skeuomorphic mess. It has a superfluous animation of a reel-to-reel player of course. But it utterly fails at its most basic task: playing a goddamn podcast. But don't take my word for it, it has a 1.5 star rating on iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/podcasts/id525463029 Not to mention crashes... Apple used to make…

The Podcast app and the iPad Music app are both a mess, and both happened under Forstall as I understand it. Trade away the lyric and podcast show info displays for kitsch wood veneer? And a reel-to-reel tape recorder simulator? Move seek controls to weird locations? Replace the easy-to-spot seek knob with a radio needle? Why? So many small steps backward, even if no single one was a deal breaker... negative trajecto…

Wow. I haven't listened to any podcasts recently but felt compelled to try it after your post. That thing is just awful. Not only "yo dawg, I heard you like skeuomorphism..." territory, but they didn't even do it right - scrubbing through a track is completely disconnected from the tape wheels (go in reverse, it's much more obvious) If you're going to go down that path, you really have to emulate the device in question 100% accurately or else it just looks really stupid.

There's a good reason that its a bad idea to roll a system UI replacement the vast majority of the time. The next time it comes up in conversation, I now have a perfect example of why in my pocket.

I also totally agree about the "designers who didn't use the apps" bit, and would go a bit further - they really need to do a better job testing real-world network conditions too. Designing stuff designed around cell reception doesn't fare so well outside apple campus where it's not blanketed with reliable, high-speed, low-latency network connections. iTunes Match... it brings back memories of realplayer. It's a cost of secrecy, but seeing that the supply chain had already failed them there, best embrace reality and use it to improve stuff before launch.

Re: Scott Forstall leaves Apple

#263

Post by Firehed »

adam-a wrote: post #192
WiseWeasel wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rounded corners aren't necessarily skeumorphic; they're a style choice just as rounded cabinets and trim are a (popular) style choice. Likewise, shading and gradients to give an impression of depth and lighting are often used to distinguish items that are clickable or as a separator. These are artistic tools that can be used to various effects, but are not skeumorphic in the sense of trying to imitate a familiar obje…

Skeumorphic features are defined by the fact that they are unnecessary carry-overs from older or different objects. They can be useful and style choices too, but a digital button does not need to indicate depth, whereas a mechanical button does, because it needs to protrude from the surface in order to be pressed.

A mechanical button absolutely does not need to protrude from the surface to be pressed - not only can it start at surface level and be pressed into the device, it can return to starting position and remain flush. Look at most microwaves - totally flat, presses in very slightly, returns to flush. The power button on the mac pro (that neglected tower!) does the same. Also, capacitive buttons exist which, although not strictly mechanical, have a similar behavior.

Protruding buttons are merely a user interface choice. They were never a functional requirement.

Re: Scott Forstall leaves Apple

#264

Post by Firehed »

taligent wrote: post #218
brianpan wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are ways of dealing with hard problems- managing scope, managing expectations. I'm not too surprised he was fired for not executing. Remember Papermaster and the antenna? http://daringfireball.net/2010/08/papermaster_damn_antenna

Exactly. Why do you think the AppleTV is called a 'hobby' ?

Off topic, but I really want one of my "hobbies" to be a half-a-billion dollar business.

Re: Scott Forstall leaves Apple

#265

Post by navs »

nzjames wrote: post #235
olliesaunders wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Assuming you're American) what specifically makes retail in the US so much better?

I'm from New Zealand but have travelled in the US and lived in the UK. The difference is service. You get it in the US. I remember it in every store. Initially I thought it was intimidating because I was not used to it. But after a few months and some great experiences I really enjoyed it. You don't get it in the UK. High street stores, especially noticeable in places like shoe stores where you need service to comple…

I'm curious what you think of New Zealand stores. I too live here and I have yet to find a store comparable to Apple's. Then again I don't get out much.

Re: Scott Forstall leaves Apple

#266

Post by Firehed »

eridius wrote: post #169
bad_user wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem with Adress Book is that it doesn't do page flipping, although it looks like a regular book.

Yes, I get why people don't like Address Book. But it's not an e-book or e-reader, so "page flipping in an e-book" is referring to something else (presumably, iBooks).

The point was that iBooks looks and behaves like a book, so it works even if you consider it distasteful; Address Book looks like one but behaves completely differently, leaving the user confused why this "object" doesn't work.

Re: Scott Forstall leaves Apple

#267

Post by niels_olson »

wisty wrote: post #234

I think there's a few layers to this: 1) Forstall apparently wants to be CEO, and run the company. That puts him at odds with Cook (the CEO), and Ive (who wants to drive Apple's design decisions). 2) He's divisive. There's claims that neither Jonny Ive nor Bob Mansfield would talk to him without Tim Cook mediating. There's also claims that he "managed up" (showed off to the boss) better than he "managed down", and st…

Spot on. I can't help but add that on the day Apple is getting a lot unwanted press, the company you paint as Forstall's rival, Google, is also on HN front page with a remarkably quiet announcement of a $399 10" 300 dpi tablet.

I hope this marks a low for Apple. All things considered, they could do a lot worse. Hopefully they will only keep improving.

Re: Scott Forstall leaves Apple

#268

Post by lostlogin »

nzjames wrote: post #235
olliesaunders wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Assuming you're American) what specifically makes retail in the US so much better?

I'm from New Zealand but have travelled in the US and lived in the UK. The difference is service. You get it in the US. I remember it in every store. Initially I thought it was intimidating because I was not used to it. But after a few months and some great experiences I really enjoyed it. You don't get it in the UK. High street stores, especially noticeable in places like shoe stores where you need service to comple…

I never got into the helpful staff thing. I dislike being helped when in shops. Clearly I have been in New Zealand too long. Something that really irked me in the US was the way taxes worked. I never knew what I was going to pay, as taxes weren't included in the label price. It wasn't a large percentage, but I never could quite understand why anyone would take the time to make a price label which showed a price different to what I would pay. Does anywhere else do this? i have travelled a fair bit and have never encountered it before (My US experience was limited to California I should note).

Re: Scott Forstall leaves Apple

#269

Post by seannui »

Well, if he truly wants to emulate Jobs he needs to have his wilderness years outside of Apple's bosom. As the prophecy has foretold he'll return in 11 years to retake his spot as rightful CEO.

Re: Scott Forstall leaves Apple

#270

Post by benn »

wisty wrote: post #238
CamperBob2 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mapping is NOT hard. I know from personal experience. What map applications have you authored? Any links?

A basic map application just requires data, projections (which is a solved problem, if a little tedious), and a rendering system. Path finding is also basically solved (it's Algorithms 101, though you need something a bit more sophisticated to make it scale). A basic mapping app can be hacked up in a week. A good mapping app is obviously much harder, but it's still doable. But like taligent said, it's data that's the…

Retard, maps are hard. Worldwide maps with routing is super hard. Have you actually done any mapping?
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