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Why isn't LA repaving streets?

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Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#61

Post by bubblewand »

kev009 wrote: post #44
stock_toaster wrote: post #38

Maybe roads would last longer if we weren't all being forced to buy super heavy SUVs just so automakers can skirt emissions and fuel economy requirements. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPm4de6-eTg

Typical meme. Passenger vehicles of any type cause negligible road wear. The weight of a sedan (say, 4000lbs) versus a light truck (say, 6000lbs) is just not significant, further the ground pressure will be close due to tire sizing ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_pressure ) Road wear is a power law, and heavy trucks cause the wear https://blog.ucs.org/dave-cooke/trucks-cause-the-lions-share...

Correct, one of those “fun facts” of public policy is that (at least in the US) taxes and other fees, including on fuel, paid by heavy commercial trucks don’t come anywhere near paying for the damage they do to roads. The rest of us subsidize shipping-by-road with our taxes.

(Whether this is a good idea or not is debatable, but it’s the way things work right now and the fact that we subsidize truck shipping to the tune of a large amount of money is not widely known)

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#62

Post by catgirlinspace »

boredatoms wrote: post #60
mobilene wrote: post #35

We do the same here in Indianapolis and my read is that it's about cost containment. Our tax base here really doesn't fully support city services. And then more people move to the high-tax-base suburbs for better services, and the cycle repeats and gets worse.

This means that the divisions of administration are too small. Perhaps it should just a be county level or even state level concern

Indianapolis and Marion County are basically the same thing, interestingly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unigov

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#63

Post by egberts1 »

Shifty bureaucrats moving goalposts: not breaking out lane miles into patched fractional mile and full-width lane miles.

You will see that patching is more labor intensive per asphalt wear time, thus incurring greater city budget expenditure on average basis.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#64

Post by deepsun »

bigbadfeline wrote: post #57
stock_toaster wrote: post #38

Maybe roads would last longer if we weren't all being forced to buy super heavy SUVs just so automakers can skirt emissions and fuel economy requirements. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPm4de6-eTg

> Maybe roads would last longer if we weren't all being forced to buy super heavy SUVs Maybe not. Due to battery weight, EVs are super heavy even if they aren't SUVs, so are delivery trucks without which an urban community cannot and will not exist. Urban roads should be able to handle the weight even if everyone converted to EVs.

Even EV weight is tiny compared to haul trucks. Yes they have multiple axles (hence "18-wheelers"), but even then pressure on the road surface is much greater still.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#65

Post by lstodd »

AlexandrB wrote: post #27
georgefrowny wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One wonders if you could prefabricate kerb ramps and drop them in, rather than (I assume) casting them in place. Maybe they'd settle badly if vehicles drive over them, kick up in the opposite corners and become a trip hazard. The UK mostly skirts this by using tarmac and paving slabs instead of concrete.

I don't think there's a way to do this without casting something to connect the pre-fab to the surrounding concrete sidewalk. Like how do you precisely cut out the existing curb so the prefab just fits (including elevation/slope) without excessive gaps or something? And if you're pouring concrete anyway, might as well pour the curb itself.

With prefabs you first dig up both road and sidewalk, set up pre-cut granite curbs (kerbs?) on a mild concrete foundation (negates sinking completely), then repour and repave sidewalk and road. Lasts many years in -20C winters +35C summers climate.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#67

Post by antonkochubey »

downrightmike wrote: post #49
tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #2

So the city can't afford to comply with its own regulations, and instead of fixing the regulation, they find loopholes. I wonder if there's a lesson to be learned, here.

Typically taxes need to go up 2x to cover the costs. Most infra projects get done with Fed money because cities can't afford it. Also why home developers build the road and then hand it over to the city for upkeep. Its too expensive.

Because after the home is built, city starts getting tax revenue from its occupants

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#68

Post by kylehotchkiss »

everybodyknows wrote: post #39
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #31

Because it'll rain out next week and they'll fall apart again. Same problem in San Diego. Southern CA didn't really choose a great aggregate mixture for the winder rain we've gotten the past few years.

My experience is that once you get north of the city limits of San Diego, into either neighboring cities or unincorporated areas, the roads get a lot better.

I'm in north county, and it's very OK! we've had a good resurfacing pushing on quite a few of the roads around me. But they're ripping a lot of it up to lay (much needed) fiber.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#69

Post by dralley »

deepsun wrote: post #59
stock_toaster wrote: post #38

Maybe roads would last longer if we weren't all being forced to buy super heavy SUVs just so automakers can skirt emissions and fuel economy requirements. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPm4de6-eTg

I've heard that cars have negligible impact on roads. 99% damage comes from heavy haul trucks, especially those who violate weight restrictions. By the way, I've never seen SCALES OPEN sign for the trucks, it's always SCALES CLOSED, or maybe I'm just extremely unlucky.

The damage scales with weight. Cars cause less damage because they are lighter. Heavier cars still cause greater impact.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#70

Post by scoofy »

I have been a Strong Towns follower/member for about 6 years. I really don't think people realize the world of pain we're signing up for by not actually fixing the underlying problem of lack of density and walk-ability and their effect on the municipal budgets of American cities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_Towns

I know municipal finance is about as exciting socks for Christmas, but if the Strong Towns thesis is correct, we've basically found ourselves in slow moving crisis, where city budgets start very slowly, but very surely, become unsustainable, and by the time anyone notices, it's mostly too late to do anything about it. Pipes cost money, repaving costs money, replacing your wastewater system costs money... lots of money. The fact that they only have to be replaced every 30-50 years doesn't mean the costs go away... they just disappear temporarily. Deferring that maintenance doesn't actually do anything except make the problem worse tomorrow.

The idea that LA literally can't afford to bring it's sidewalks up to ADA code is insane. The idea that they're engaging in penny-smart, pound-foolish solutions is a strong signal that the city budget is already deeply broken, and likely is not fixable under the current paradigm of LA politics.

California cities could trivially fix their budget problems by satisfying the demand for housing by adding density, but it seems they are determined to do nothing until the wheels finally fall off, and the city's budget crisis spirals out of control. Even then, I wonder if they will take the Detroit-route and declare bankruptcy before actually addressing the problem.

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