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Why isn't LA repaving streets?

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Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#41

Post by nonameiguess »

streptomycin wrote: post #3
tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #2

So the city can't afford to comply with its own regulations, and instead of fixing the regulation, they find loopholes. I wonder if there's a lesson to be learned, here.

The article says the city claims the biggest issue is federal regulations (the ADA) not city regulations. My neighborhood in NJ just got those fancy ADA compliant curb ramps last year, along with a repaving. It did take them much longer to install the curb ramps (like a week or two?) than it did to pave (one day) so I can imagine there is a significant cost, even if it's a smaller amount of materials.

Damn. I've been curious what the deal is with the rubber lego knob coverings on sidewalk ramps and here it is. I mostly notice because they're such hell for skateboarding, so it never occurred to me they'd be an ADA thing as I assume they're equally hard to navigate in a wheelchair, but apparently the idea is to provide a tactile warning that the street is nearby for people with vision impairments.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#42

Post by XorNot »

georgefrowny wrote: post #25
bombcar wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or make the asphalt "ride up" onto the sidewalk itself, so the complicated part is made of asphalt. Likely this won't be terribly faster, and I did see the company near us using a machine that was building curb cuts directly.

I looked up kerb cutting machines and it's interesting how much of the process is cutting through cast-in-place kerbs with special saws. There are hardly any of these in the UK, for example, and kerbs are nearly always made of kerbstones that are sunk into the ground. They have their own problems with sinking when driven on, and I imagine frost heave in areas where the ground freezes seasonally. But it does mean that…

I wonder if you could just ignore ignore settlement by provisioning for hydraulic slab jacking instead?

Include a built channel for injecting hydraulic grout a few months later once the settlements happened to correct it out.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#43

Post by carlosjobim »

alt227 wrote: post #8

In the UK we call this 'Surface Dressing' and is a typical money saving meaasure to avoid the full cost of paving the road properly. It looks terrible and doenst last very long, so peronsally I dont see the point. https://www.somerset.gov.uk/roads-travel-and-parking/surface...

The point is for the road to be better to use.

If it's cheap and fast, then there's no reason to wait to do it "properly" later. Do the quick fix first.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#44

Post by kev009 »

stock_toaster wrote: post #38

Maybe roads would last longer if we weren't all being forced to buy super heavy SUVs just so automakers can skirt emissions and fuel economy requirements. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPm4de6-eTg

Typical meme. Passenger vehicles of any type cause negligible road wear. The weight of a sedan (say, 4000lbs) versus a light truck (say, 6000lbs) is just not significant, further the ground pressure will be close due to tire sizing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_pressure)

Road wear is a power law, and heavy trucks cause the wear https://blog.ucs.org/dave-cooke/trucks-cause-the-lions-share...

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#45

Post by thfuran »

stock_toaster wrote: post #38

Maybe roads would last longer if we weren't all being forced to buy super heavy SUVs just so automakers can skirt emissions and fuel economy requirements. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPm4de6-eTg

I don’t think SUV vs car makes a meaningful difference when e.g. delivery vans and garbage trucks exist.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#47

Post by fsckboy »

djoldman wrote: post #28
mschuster91 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why don't they asphalt curb to curb for a mile and then come back and do the ramps one at a time? As someone who did a stint in this kind of construction: not possible, you'd still need to re-pave about 30-50cm worth of road, because curbstones are (usually) suspended in a bunch of concrete to avoid them getting dislocated by cars hitting or driving over them. The result will be a faultline from which you will get…

Interesting! Is it possible to make the ramps offsite and then fit into place? EDIT: I'm assuming the difficulty here is the pedestrian ramps at intersections. NOT the curb that spans the entirety of a road section.

I don't know what you mean, but I belive we're talking about "wheelchair ramps" at street corners

some of the laws mandating that type of thing specify "if/when you renovate something, you need to bring it up to code, otherwise you can skate on the code"

this affects a lot of the little tiny shops in NYC. if you change your facade or bathrooms, they need to be made accessible. however, it's not the cost of renovation, it's that accessibility can entail many many square feet of space that is now inaccessible-to-make-any-money-from, making the rent much more unaffordable. so, renovations are still done, but meticulously match what any previous plans on file would look like.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#48

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

mdorazio wrote: post #14
mschuster91 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why don't they asphalt curb to curb for a mile and then come back and do the ramps one at a time? As someone who did a stint in this kind of construction: not possible, you'd still need to re-pave about 30-50cm worth of road, because curbstones are (usually) suspended in a bunch of concrete to avoid them getting dislocated by cars hitting or driving over them. The result will be a faultline from which you will get…

Worth noting that LA does not have freeze cycles. I wonder what the pothole formation likelihood is as a result.

LA uses asphalt overlays on top of concrete. These have adhesion problems compared to monolithic asphalt over gravel.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#49

Post by downrightmike »

tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #2

So the city can't afford to comply with its own regulations, and instead of fixing the regulation, they find loopholes. I wonder if there's a lesson to be learned, here.

Typically taxes need to go up 2x to cover the costs. Most infra projects get done with Fed money because cities can't afford it. Also why home developers build the road and then hand it over to the city for upkeep. Its too expensive.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#50

Post by cucumber3732842 »

nonameiguess wrote: post #41
streptomycin wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article says the city claims the biggest issue is federal regulations (the ADA) not city regulations. My neighborhood in NJ just got those fancy ADA compliant curb ramps last year, along with a repaving. It did take them much longer to install the curb ramps (like a week or two?) than it did to pave (one day) so I can imagine there is a significant cost, even if it's a smaller amount of materials.

Damn. I've been curious what the deal is with the rubber lego knob coverings on sidewalk ramps and here it is. I mostly notice because they're such hell for skateboarding, so it never occurred to me they'd be an ADA thing as I assume they're equally hard to navigate in a wheelchair, but apparently the idea is to provide a tactile warning that the street is nearby for people with vision impairments.

>I mostly notice because they're such hell for skateboarding, so it never occurred to me they'd be an ADA thing

"Be hell for skateboarding" wasn't likely considered a bonus by the disability people because it would rally "those sort of people" to their (otherwise legitimate) cause.

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