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Why isn't LA repaving streets?

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Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#11

Post by creaturemachine »

djoldman wrote: post #7

> Mozee went into detail comparing slow concrete curb accessibility work to the faster asphalt street work. Per Mozee, “there’s approximately 14 ramps in a mile.” So for “one crew to build out those 14 ramps will take approximately three months.” In contrast, he said, “a paving crew on a good day … could pave that same mile in a weekend or one week, at most.” Why don't they asphalt curb to curb for a mile and then co…

Because you need to build a form for concrete, and to build the form after paving means you'd have to cut then patch that new asphalt, which will just end up forming potholes.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#12

Post by ajsnigrutin »

alt227 wrote: post #8

In the UK we call this 'Surface Dressing' and is a typical money saving meaasure to avoid the full cost of paving the road properly. It looks terrible and doenst last very long, so peronsally I dont see the point. https://www.somerset.gov.uk/roads-travel-and-parking/surface...

I would prefer that over here in slovenia.... instead, we can't repave a street without digging a few meters deep, finding ancient roman remains, and delaying the repair for many months... heck, even without finding roman stuff, we had an 800m long road closed for 2 years...

So yeah, it's either potholes or road closure for a year++.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#14

Post by mdorazio »

mschuster91 wrote: post #10
djoldman wrote: post #7

> Mozee went into detail comparing slow concrete curb accessibility work to the faster asphalt street work. Per Mozee, “there’s approximately 14 ramps in a mile.” So for “one crew to build out those 14 ramps will take approximately three months.” In contrast, he said, “a paving crew on a good day … could pave that same mile in a weekend or one week, at most.” Why don't they asphalt curb to curb for a mile and then co…

> Why don't they asphalt curb to curb for a mile and then come back and do the ramps one at a time? As someone who did a stint in this kind of construction: not possible, you'd still need to re-pave about 30-50cm worth of road, because curbstones are (usually) suspended in a bunch of concrete to avoid them getting dislocated by cars hitting or driving over them. The result will be a faultline from which you will get…

Worth noting that LA does not have freeze cycles. I wonder what the pothole formation likelihood is as a result.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#15

Post by bahmboo »

Good infrastructure costs money. Citizens don't want to pay for it. The city workers have to figure out how to solve problems.

Another fun one is talking about how much was accomplished decades ago when the streets were...decades newer.

Go ahead and say it's mismanagement.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#16

Post by linkjuice4all »

mschuster91 wrote: post #10
djoldman wrote: post #7

> Mozee went into detail comparing slow concrete curb accessibility work to the faster asphalt street work. Per Mozee, “there’s approximately 14 ramps in a mile.” So for “one crew to build out those 14 ramps will take approximately three months.” In contrast, he said, “a paving crew on a good day … could pave that same mile in a weekend or one week, at most.” Why don't they asphalt curb to curb for a mile and then co…

> Why don't they asphalt curb to curb for a mile and then come back and do the ramps one at a time? As someone who did a stint in this kind of construction: not possible, you'd still need to re-pave about 30-50cm worth of road, because curbstones are (usually) suspended in a bunch of concrete to avoid them getting dislocated by cars hitting or driving over them. The result will be a faultline from which you will get…

LA is fortunate in that it doesn't suffer from freeze/thaw cycles and can put down a lot more concrete without worrying about expansion/contraction and water ingress.

I've noticed that a fair amount of concrete sidewalk in Los Angeles appears to have been poured when the neighborhoods were first developed (as in post-WW2) and haven't been removed or updated since then (at least based on the date/contractor stamps). Again, the lack of freezing weather, wide streets that don't necessitate parking/loading on the sidewalk, and fewer tree roots to uproot/disturb the gutters and sidewalks means that the original infrastructure is still in use.

More to the point - creating curb cuts is more than just customizing concrete forms. Oftentimes you'll need to regrade the surrounding area to reduce slope, move any in-ground utilities, and revisit any other updates to building codes (such as the bike lane stuff mentioned in the article). Not everything in/under the streets is owned by the same city/county/state/federal department/private org so that further complicates the work.

If only the real estate speculators that settled this swampy valley had considered this stuff in the early 20th century...

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#17

Post by herdcall »

bahmboo wrote: post #15

Good infrastructure costs money. Citizens don't want to pay for it. The city workers have to figure out how to solve problems. Another fun one is talking about how much was accomplished decades ago when the streets were...decades newer. Go ahead and say it's mismanagement.

We pay 7.25% sales tax in California, the highest in the country. Plus, county taxes can go up to 3.5%, adding up to 10.75% total. It's not too much to ask for basic stuff like maintaining the streets when paying this kind of money. The roads in Orange County, where I live, are great though.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#18

Post by recursive »

bahmboo wrote: post #15

Good infrastructure costs money. Citizens don't want to pay for it. The city workers have to figure out how to solve problems. Another fun one is talking about how much was accomplished decades ago when the streets were...decades newer. Go ahead and say it's mismanagement.

Streets were only decades newer if they haven't been re-built since then. But when streets were new, they were built recently. That still provides evidence that is somehow possible to build streets. Did people want to pay for streets the first time they were constructed? Go ahead and say it's not mismanagement.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#19

Post by hypeatei »

bahmboo wrote: post #15

Good infrastructure costs money. Citizens don't want to pay for it. The city workers have to figure out how to solve problems. Another fun one is talking about how much was accomplished decades ago when the streets were...decades newer. Go ahead and say it's mismanagement.

Yeah this seems like a failure at the federal level. There should be incentives for city street departments to implement the newest standards, not "follow these rules, or else" type of thinking. LA residents now to have to deal with outdated ADA standards and half-assed repairs.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#20

Post by bombcar »

georgefrowny wrote: post #6
streptomycin wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article says the city claims the biggest issue is federal regulations (the ADA) not city regulations. My neighborhood in NJ just got those fancy ADA compliant curb ramps last year, along with a repaving. It did take them much longer to install the curb ramps (like a week or two?) than it did to pave (one day) so I can imagine there is a significant cost, even if it's a smaller amount of materials.

One wonders if you could prefabricate kerb ramps and drop them in, rather than (I assume) casting them in place. Maybe they'd settle badly if vehicles drive over them, kick up in the opposite corners and become a trip hazard. The UK mostly skirts this by using tarmac and paving slabs instead of concrete.

Or make the asphalt "ride up" onto the sidewalk itself, so the complicated part is made of asphalt.

Likely this won't be terribly faster, and I did see the company near us using a machine that was building curb cuts directly.

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