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Scott Forstall leaves Apple

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Re: Scott Forstall leaves Apple

#161

Post by mcgroarty »

nostromo wrote: post #101

Does anyone but me here listen incessantly to podcasts? The latest Podcasts App from iTunes is a skeuomorphic mess. It has a superfluous animation of a reel-to-reel player of course. But it utterly fails at its most basic task: playing a goddamn podcast. But don't take my word for it, it has a 1.5 star rating on iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/podcasts/id525463029 Not to mention crashes... Apple used to make…

The Podcast app and the iPad Music app are both a mess, and both happened under Forstall as I understand it.

Trade away the lyric and podcast show info displays for kitsch wood veneer? And a reel-to-reel tape recorder simulator? Move seek controls to weird locations? Replace the easy-to-spot seek knob with a radio needle? Why? So many small steps backward, even if no single one was a deal breaker... negative trajectory is negative trajectory.

If this means they walk some of that silliness back, it's the best Apple news in ages. It started to look like designers who didn't actually use the apps were taking over.

Re: Scott Forstall leaves Apple

#162

Post by smegel »

Can everyone saying "it's unfair to dump him due to Maps, because mapping is hard" realize it has nothing to do with the quality of the application, but the quality (or lack thereof) of the PR and management of customer expectations.

If Apple had come out 3 months before iPhone5 and said "Look, we really need to divorce ourselves from Google Maps as we can't be relying on an arch-competitor for such an important service, but please be aware that our new Maps app will have issues for several months as we work out the kinks based on customer feedback", and reinforced that message several times, the issue would have been close to a non-issue - and I think most people would have understood.

Instead they came out and said "new Maps is the greatest thing since sliced bread!" (paraphrasing) which was downright wrong and people rightly felt let down.

Re: Scott Forstall leaves Apple

#163

Post by danilocampos »

Steko wrote: post #155
danilocampos wrote: post #53

Interesting that Eddie Cue remains the company fixer, taking on the quirky Siri and the flakey Maps app just as he was once given a completely fucked up MobileMe. This is good news. Even better news is Browett's ouster. The business with his cutting operational corners in retail was a very, very bad omen. If they'd left him in, he might have poisoned a very important well for the company. Hopefully his replacement is…

As much as Apple's software and hardware are talked about, Eddie Cue is also the guy largely responsible for negotiating Apple's superior media offerings which is arguably Apple's biggest lead on their competitors internationally.

No kidding! Anywhere you can recommend I read more about this?

Re: Scott Forstall leaves Apple

#165

Post by MetricMike »

eridius wrote: post #154
feverishaaron wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Skeuomorphism has been interpreted two ways - as decorative elements (leather stitching), and in functionality that attempts to emulate a real world object (page flipping in an e-book). The former is just a matter of aesthetic preference. Where skeuomorphism gets dangerous is in the latter case. A perfect example is the horrible address book in OS X. It looks like a book, and therefore the user expects it to function…

You give "page flipping in an e-book" as an example of dangerous skeuomorphism, but then cite Address Book as why it's bad. I'm a bit confused. I get why you don't like Address Book, but do you really think page flipping in an e-reader is bad too? If so, why do you think that?

The dichotomy is what's dangerous. Address Book looks like an book, so I'll try to interact with it like that. When that doesn't work, I get confused, angry, and it's generally a "failure" from a UX point of view.

Neither form of skeuomorphism is inherently bad, but it's easier to shoot yourself in the foot and ruin the UX when you move from decorative to functional.

Re: Scott Forstall leaves Apple

#166

Post by drivebyacct2 »

Steko wrote: post #155
danilocampos wrote: post #53

Interesting that Eddie Cue remains the company fixer, taking on the quirky Siri and the flakey Maps app just as he was once given a completely fucked up MobileMe. This is good news. Even better news is Browett's ouster. The business with his cutting operational corners in retail was a very, very bad omen. If they'd left him in, he might have poisoned a very important well for the company. Hopefully his replacement is…

As much as Apple's software and hardware are talked about, Eddie Cue is also the guy largely responsible for negotiating Apple's superior media offerings which is arguably Apple's biggest lead on their competitors internationally.

Great, I'll remember to curse him the next time I can't buy something because it's EXCLUSIVELY listed in iTunes.

Not sure why this is downvoted. At least Apple's competitors allow me to buy their music as Linux user.

Re: Scott Forstall leaves Apple

#167

Post by bad_user »

eridius wrote: post #154
feverishaaron wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Skeuomorphism has been interpreted two ways - as decorative elements (leather stitching), and in functionality that attempts to emulate a real world object (page flipping in an e-book). The former is just a matter of aesthetic preference. Where skeuomorphism gets dangerous is in the latter case. A perfect example is the horrible address book in OS X. It looks like a book, and therefore the user expects it to function…

You give "page flipping in an e-book" as an example of dangerous skeuomorphism, but then cite Address Book as why it's bad. I'm a bit confused. I get why you don't like Address Book, but do you really think page flipping in an e-reader is bad too? If so, why do you think that?

Problem with Adress Book is that it doesn't do page flipping, although it looks like a regular book.

Re: Scott Forstall leaves Apple

#168

Post by drivebyacct2 »

arrrg wrote: post #9

Jony Ive is now responsible for HI guidelines across the company? That could turn out great or horrible. (I'm not sure whether obviously great hardware designers can also be great UI designers.) I'm optimistic for now. Hopefully that means bye bye overt skeumorphism. (I do think Apple's UIs have in the past always been above average, sometimes excellent. Their fashion choices, however, have at times been horrible. It…

I hope it breathes some life into iOS. I feel like Cupertino is still thinking people are beating the "iOS is way more pretty than Android" moniker to death when it hasn't been true for a while, meanwhile, I understand it's an opinion, but I don't think iOS has aged as well.

Toning down overt skeumorphism is just the start.

Re: Scott Forstall leaves Apple

#169

Post by eridius »

bad_user wrote: post #167
eridius wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You give "page flipping in an e-book" as an example of dangerous skeuomorphism, but then cite Address Book as why it's bad. I'm a bit confused. I get why you don't like Address Book, but do you really think page flipping in an e-reader is bad too? If so, why do you think that?

Problem with Adress Book is that it doesn't do page flipping, although it looks like a regular book.

Yes, I get why people don't like Address Book. But it's not an e-book or e-reader, so "page flipping in an e-book" is referring to something else (presumably, iBooks).

Re: Scott Forstall leaves Apple

#170

Post by panacea »

eridius wrote: post #154
feverishaaron wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Skeuomorphism has been interpreted two ways - as decorative elements (leather stitching), and in functionality that attempts to emulate a real world object (page flipping in an e-book). The former is just a matter of aesthetic preference. Where skeuomorphism gets dangerous is in the latter case. A perfect example is the horrible address book in OS X. It looks like a book, and therefore the user expects it to function…

You give "page flipping in an e-book" as an example of dangerous skeuomorphism, but then cite Address Book as why it's bad. I'm a bit confused. I get why you don't like Address Book, but do you really think page flipping in an e-reader is bad too? If so, why do you think that?

Because pages in an e-reader are not physical sheets bound together that require flipping over before you can see the page below.

If you can render the next page faster, then why fake a 'page turn' that takes time to animate.

It's the very definition of skeuomorphism.

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