Georgian wine culture dates back, uninterrupted, approximately 8k years • Hacker News Board

Re: Georgian wine culture dates back, uninterrupted, approximately 8k years

#51

Post by gnull » Wed, Feb 25, 2026, 8:42 AM UTC

riffraff wrote: post #24

gnull wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt they will benefit from that integration much. But I'm pretty sure the way there will hurt. Georgia's economy is tied to Russia at the moment, and as you said Westerners are not exactly lining up to travel to Georgia and order its wine (Russians are). The narrative "people want EU (aka freedom and democracy), but bad dictators won't let them" is a populist one. And EU has been using it like carrot and stick to…

It's not the EU, OSCE reports the same. > Elections in Georgia are very competitive. I've heard that government was slowly putting pressure on media, but I don't remember anything major. The OCSE report on the 2024 election was that they were significantly biased[0] > Reports of pressure on voters, particularly on public sector employees, remained widespread in the campaign. This, coupled with extensive tracking of v…

I don't like using "western-oriented" as synonym for free/democratic/good, but otherwise I agree it's gotten worse. Your use of the word "backsliding", I think, was appropriate.

Are we talking about EU spokesperson calling Georgian elections illegitimate? If so, I believe your quotes show that there's no basis for that claim. The OSCE specifically says that, despite a bunch of concerns, Georgia's legal framework is "adequate". To me, that reads as "it passes the bar".

Re: Georgian wine culture dates back, uninterrupted, approximately 8k years

#52

Post by Tade0 » Wed, Feb 25, 2026, 8:43 AM UTC

gnull wrote: post #42

Tade0 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The narrative "people want EU (aka freedom and democracy), but bad dictators won't let them" is a populist one. Former eastern block members that are currently in the EU beg to differ. It's no accident that there's such a developmental gap between those of the former communist states which turned to the west vs those who remained in Russia's sphere of influence. You can't meaningfully prosper with Russia.

[flagged]

> Maybe the reason is not that EU magically turns everything it touches into gold (while Russian orcs turn it to crap, obviously), but that EU is carefully choosing who joins and doesn't let the bad prospects in?

The EU gives certain conditions and it's up to the elites in a given country to meet them, as that necessarily means reining in corruption - to an extent. Fortunately for me, the ones in my mine decided that this is the best course of action and we all benefited.

Also when you look at the examples of Greece or Orban's Hungary, occasionally a member will go off the rails. But again, it's the elites that let this happen.

Meanwhile corruption is an inherent feature of the Russian system, which is why doing business with them is broadly speaking a bad idea. Also it's a rather small economy producing largely low value products despite vast natural resources - there's no benefit in associating with them in this day and age. The cheap gas is not worth it.

Re: Georgian wine culture dates back, uninterrupted, approximately 8k years

#53

Post by avadodin » Wed, Feb 25, 2026, 8:44 AM UTC

Ostrogoth wrote: post #28

3RTB297 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not who you asked, but the niche for Georgian wine is orange wine, which is white wine left to sit on the grape skins for a couple days, so it pulls more tannins. It's not exclusive to them alone, but the more distinct niche is orange wine aged in clay pots that gives it a distinct earthiness. If you appreciate understanding food anthropology, this is more similar to how wine was produced in ancient times, as opp…

You can also find orange (or skin contact) wine in the US at smaller boutique natural wine shops, which are becoming more common. Orange wines are cultivated in Sonoma and other wine regions in the US as well.

Totally off-topic but there are also white wines made with red grapes with white flesh by quickly separating the skins which is kind of the opposite.

Re: Georgian wine culture dates back, uninterrupted, approximately 8k years

#54

Post by gnull » Wed, Feb 25, 2026, 8:52 AM UTC

PowerElectronix wrote: post #49

gnull wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Everyone that wanted in, got in. And got better living standards than those that didn't want in. Just having access to the european free market would do that, without considering the money that pours in from the eu to developing countries. When Ukraine wins the war and joins, you'll see how much better they get, too.

If it's that simple, why doesn't everyone "want in" and get those precious living standards? There must be a lot of stupid governments if they literally refuse free stuff. Or your statement is naive and overly simplistic. Guess which of the two is more likely?

Does Georgia "want in"? I'm not so sure what that means. The population has mixed feelings about it, as I understand from friends there. The current government who represents them doesn't want in.

> Just having access to the european free market

Again, do you think this just offers you free stuff? A marked doesn't just offer you "access", it assigns you a role you're going to be playing in it. And some roles are worse than the others, even if the marked is "good".

Re: Georgian wine culture dates back, uninterrupted, approximately 8k years

#55

Post by baud147258 » Wed, Feb 25, 2026, 8:53 AM UTC

usrnm wrote: post #43

gregman1 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as France is in EU no other country on earth can import good wine. Cheap - probably, heavily controlled and in many cases partially owned by French or in some rare cases other European companies (like in Chilean or Argentinian cases). This market is rather hardcore and kinda monopolized in EU. Go ask anyone who knows wine market or works at a Georgian (or any ex-Soviet restaurant). Georgian wine enjoyed this…

What are you talking about, there are multiple wine-producing regions in the EU, and there is absolutely no problem finding Spanish, Italian or even German wine in any EU country. Even Georgian wines can be found, if you know what to look for

At least in France it's quite complicated to find wine from elsewhere unless you go to wine retailers.

Re: Georgian wine culture dates back, uninterrupted, approximately 8k years

#56

Post by penetrarthur » Wed, Feb 25, 2026, 8:54 AM UTC

gnull wrote: post #7

riffraff wrote: post #3

Georgian cuisine and drinking is little known in the west but it's really, really good. It's a pity the country has been democratically backsliding for a while, which has limited their hopes of tighter integration with the EU.

I doubt they will benefit from that integration much. But I'm pretty sure the way there will hurt. Georgia's economy is tied to Russia at the moment, and as you said Westerners are not exactly lining up to travel to Georgia and order its wine (Russians are). The narrative "people want EU (aka freedom and democracy), but bad dictators won't let them" is a populist one. And EU has been using it like carrot and stick to…

I've been to Georgia 10 years ago and there were a lot of tourists from Germany and France. Both the buses with organized trips for retired people and youngsters renting AirBnbs for cheap.

The problem we faced was with the inconsistency in price/quality in restaurants and services. Some places are really cheap - a huge dinner for two in a "I want this, this and this and two bottles of wine" manner costed 25EUR, while a 15 minute transfer could cost 50EUR. This inconsistency is something that leaves a bad aftertaste for many tourists, who would otherwise want to go there again and again to enjoy the beautiful nature, food, wine. And the tap water is literally Evian. That was in Kutaisi.

If it wasn't for the sudden grab of power fueled by Russian money and the influx of people fleeing from Russia because of war, give Georgia another 10-20 years, and the living standards would rise dramatically. Similar to how it happened in early 2000s.

Re: Georgian wine culture dates back, uninterrupted, approximately 8k years

#57

Post by BrenBarn » Wed, Feb 25, 2026, 8:57 AM UTC

gnull wrote: post #46

victorbjorklund wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me guess, you think that Ukrainians also really want to be part of Russia and that they are just being manipulated by Westerners and that true Ukrainians wanna be part of Russian Empire? And that Russians are just liberating them.

Not sure where you got that. Sounds like trying to use tropes from a superficial Hollywood action movie in real life, not my thing. I think that a Ukrainian in his sane mind would want to look at options he's dealt and pick the one that leads to most safety and prosperity to him and his family. At the same time the government ideologues are trying to indoctrinate him with nationalism to sacrifice it all for their goa…

Do you think that it is meaningful to think about things being good or evil in a manner that is separate from what is "safe" or "prosperous"? If someone points a gun at you and demands all your money, the safe thing is to give it to them. Does that mean it's a good outcome for all?

Re: Georgian wine culture dates back, uninterrupted, approximately 8k years

#58

Post by gnull » Wed, Feb 25, 2026, 9:01 AM UTC

Tade0 wrote: post #52

gnull wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Maybe the reason is not that EU magically turns everything it touches into gold (while Russian orcs turn it to crap, obviously), but that EU is carefully choosing who joins and doesn't let the bad prospects in? The EU gives certain conditions and it's up to the elites in a given country to meet them, as that necessarily means reining in corruption - to an extent. Fortunately for me, the ones in my mine decided that…

> Also it's a rather small economy producing largely low value products despite vast natural resources - there's no benefit in associating with them in this day and age. The cheap gas is not worth it.

Why it's not worth it? I don't see how the quote would imply it. I don't see why they wouldn't encourage Russia to join EU too given what you wrote. In the worst case you'll get one more Hungary.

And if Russia is corrupt, you can still deal with them if you're ruled by foreign courts. Russia did comply with European Court of Human Rights IIRC right until the invasion. Something as minor as a politically partial court decision in Russia could be appealed in ECHR and Russia would pay a compensation to its citizen. If you're a business, I'm pretty sure you'll find a way to defend your interests in pre-2022 Russia.

Re: Georgian wine culture dates back, uninterrupted, approximately 8k years

#59

Post by inatreecrown2 » Wed, Feb 25, 2026, 9:15 AM UTC

penetrarthur wrote: post #50

gregman1 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as France is in EU no other country on earth can import good wine. Cheap - probably, heavily controlled and in many cases partially owned by French or in some rare cases other European companies (like in Chilean or Argentinian cases). This market is rather hardcore and kinda monopolized in EU. Go ask anyone who knows wine market or works at a Georgian (or any ex-Soviet restaurant). Georgian wine enjoyed this…

There are a lot of Georgian wines in EU. Especially the recently popular orange wines(white wine made like red wine).

I recently tried an orange wine from a very good maker in Austria, with excellent whites and reds. I don't like the orange wine though, not my taste. I wonder why it is so popular.

Re: Georgian wine culture dates back, uninterrupted, approximately 8k years

#60

Post by tpm » Wed, Feb 25, 2026, 9:17 AM UTC

gregman1 wrote: post #11

riffraff wrote: post #3

Georgian cuisine and drinking is little known in the west but it's really, really good. It's a pity the country has been democratically backsliding for a while, which has limited their hopes of tighter integration with the EU.

As long as France is in EU no other country on earth can import good wine. Cheap - probably, heavily controlled and in many cases partially owned by French or in some rare cases other European companies (like in Chilean or Argentinian cases). This market is rather hardcore and kinda monopolized in EU. Go ask anyone who knows wine market or works at a Georgian (or any ex-Soviet restaurant). Georgian wine enjoyed this…

I don't really understand your point here. Sure France is overly protective about their wine, like every country tries to protect their flagship industry. And inside the EU there are many other wine-producing countries who want to protect their producers too.

But I can buy Georgian wine in a few shops and restaurants here, even those made in kvevri. I can buy small-batch Serbian (Serbia is not in the EU either) orange wine too. It's hard to import into the EU? I'm sure it is, the rules are very strict, but it's doable.