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Georgian wine culture dates back, uninterrupted, approximately 8k years

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Re: Georgian wine culture dates back, uninterrupted, approximately 8k years

#21

Post by messe »

dcrazy wrote: post #6
petesergeant wrote: post #4

They're very proud of it too, but having spent time in Tbilisi (strong recommend!), there's a very simple reason you can buy French and Australian wine at your local shop, but nobody has bothered to make sure there's a good selection of Georgian wine there.

Germany and especially Austria produce some rather poor reds but have carved out a niche for Riesling and Gewürtztraminer. Is there a similar niche for Georgian wine?

> Germany and especially Austria produce some rather poor reds but have carved out a niche for Riesling and Gewürtztraminer.

You're missing out on some rather nice German reds. You can definitely find some excellent Spätburgunders out there.

Re: Georgian wine culture dates back, uninterrupted, approximately 8k years

#22

Post by jayquery »

Tade0 wrote: post #16
gnull wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt they will benefit from that integration much. But I'm pretty sure the way there will hurt. Georgia's economy is tied to Russia at the moment, and as you said Westerners are not exactly lining up to travel to Georgia and order its wine (Russians are). The narrative "people want EU (aka freedom and democracy), but bad dictators won't let them" is a populist one. And EU has been using it like carrot and stick to…

> The narrative "people want EU (aka freedom and democracy), but bad dictators won't let them" is a populist one. Former eastern block members that are currently in the EU beg to differ. It's no accident that there's such a developmental gap between those of the former communist states which turned to the west vs those who remained in Russia's sphere of influence. You can't meaningfully prosper with Russia.

[dead]

Re: Georgian wine culture dates back, uninterrupted, approximately 8k years

#24

Post by riffraff »

gnull wrote: post #7
riffraff wrote: post #3

Georgian cuisine and drinking is little known in the west but it's really, really good. It's a pity the country has been democratically backsliding for a while, which has limited their hopes of tighter integration with the EU.

I doubt they will benefit from that integration much. But I'm pretty sure the way there will hurt. Georgia's economy is tied to Russia at the moment, and as you said Westerners are not exactly lining up to travel to Georgia and order its wine (Russians are). The narrative "people want EU (aka freedom and democracy), but bad dictators won't let them" is a populist one. And EU has been using it like carrot and stick to…

It's not the EU, OSCE reports the same.

> Elections in Georgia are very competitive. I've heard that government was slowly putting pressure on media, but I don't remember anything major.

The OCSE report on the 2024 election was that they were significantly biased[0]

> Reports of pressure on voters, particularly on public sector employees, remained widespread in the campaign. This, coupled with extensive tracking of voters on election day, raised concerns about the ability of some voters to cast their vote without fear of retribution. The legal framework provides an adequate basis for democratic elections, but recent frequent amendments marked a step backwards, raising concerns over its potential use for political gain. Preparations for the elections were well-administered, including extensive voter education on the use of new voting technologies. A significant imbalance in financial resources and advantage of incumbency contributed to an already uneven playing field. The polarized media environment and instrumentalization of private outlets for political propaganda affected impartial news coverage, hindering voters’ ability to make an informed choice. Effectiveness of campaign finance oversight was undermined by limited enforcement, and concerns over the impartiality and political instrumentalization of the oversight body.

And in 2025, OSCE again complained about the democratic limitations to protest[1]

> “Peaceful protesters in Georgia continue to be detained, sentenced, and fined for exercising their rights. The authorities have an obligation to implement their OSCE human rights commitments and international obligations, including respect for the right to peaceful assembly”, said Maria Telalian, ODIHR Director. “I would like to urge once again the Georgian authorities to ensure that civil society and human rights defenders are not targeted and that their voices are heard, as their work is crucial in fostering a vibrant democratic society.”

We can agree this is still a western-oriented view, but I think it's pretty undisputable that Georgia in 2026 is a less open society than Georgia in 2016.

[0] https://www.osce.org/sites/default/files/f/documents/1/6/584...

[1] https://odihr.osce.org/odihr/598675

Re: Georgian wine culture dates back, uninterrupted, approximately 8k years

#25

Post by pinkmuffinere »

poisonarena wrote: post #14
riffraff wrote: post #3

Georgian cuisine and drinking is little known in the west but it's really, really good. It's a pity the country has been democratically backsliding for a while, which has limited their hopes of tighter integration with the EU.

I love Sakartvelo, but its ottoman/turkish food meets slavic food.. I can't think of a single dish (khachapuri/khinkali/etc).. that is from Georgia, that also doesnt exist in its neighboring countries in the middle east under a different name, russia/ukraine, and the balkans. Dont tell them that though, they don't like it! Its a total crossroads of a country

To be fair, this is true of all the Middle East. Döner, baklava kunefe, coffee, börek, etc. But the combination of common elements is still delicious, and every region has their own unique opinions about what makes a dish “correct”. I would easily believe the balkans (or any costly neighboring countries) are the same.

Re: Georgian wine culture dates back, uninterrupted, approximately 8k years

#26

Post by CjHuber »

Tade0 wrote: post #16
gnull wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt they will benefit from that integration much. But I'm pretty sure the way there will hurt. Georgia's economy is tied to Russia at the moment, and as you said Westerners are not exactly lining up to travel to Georgia and order its wine (Russians are). The narrative "people want EU (aka freedom and democracy), but bad dictators won't let them" is a populist one. And EU has been using it like carrot and stick to…

> The narrative "people want EU (aka freedom and democracy), but bad dictators won't let them" is a populist one. Former eastern block members that are currently in the EU beg to differ. It's no accident that there's such a developmental gap between those of the former communist states which turned to the west vs those who remained in Russia's sphere of influence. You can't meaningfully prosper with Russia.

It's terrible that people think like that, especially in Georgia where they are still not tied to the debt fueled pyramid scheme that is the EU.

They still think of Europe as how it was 20 years+ ago, they always only look at the surface and never if the whole concept really works out long term.

Re: Georgian wine culture dates back, uninterrupted, approximately 8k years

#27

Post by [deleted] »

3RTB297 wrote: post #13
dcrazy wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany and especially Austria produce some rather poor reds but have carved out a niche for Riesling and Gewürtztraminer. Is there a similar niche for Georgian wine?

I'm not who you asked, but the niche for Georgian wine is orange wine, which is white wine left to sit on the grape skins for a couple days, so it pulls more tannins. It's not exclusive to them alone, but the more distinct niche is orange wine aged in clay pots that gives it a distinct earthiness. If you appreciate understanding food anthropology, this is more similar to how wine was produced in ancient times, as opp…

[deleted]

Re: Georgian wine culture dates back, uninterrupted, approximately 8k years

#28

Post by Ostrogoth »

3RTB297 wrote: post #13
dcrazy wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany and especially Austria produce some rather poor reds but have carved out a niche for Riesling and Gewürtztraminer. Is there a similar niche for Georgian wine?

I'm not who you asked, but the niche for Georgian wine is orange wine, which is white wine left to sit on the grape skins for a couple days, so it pulls more tannins. It's not exclusive to them alone, but the more distinct niche is orange wine aged in clay pots that gives it a distinct earthiness. If you appreciate understanding food anthropology, this is more similar to how wine was produced in ancient times, as opp…

You can also find orange (or skin contact) wine in the US at smaller boutique natural wine shops, which are becoming more common. Orange wines are cultivated in Sonoma and other wine regions in the US as well.

Re: Georgian wine culture dates back, uninterrupted, approximately 8k years

#29

Post by gnull »

shermantanktop wrote: post #17
gnull wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

In Florida it wouldn’t be confusing to refer to someone from Hawaii as “Hawaiian,” but in Hawaii it means something much more specific about ancestry, and it’s considered rude and even offensive to misuse it. In NYC they pronounce Oregon as “Ore-gone,” even though Oregonians pronounce it “Ore-gun.” In Portland, mispronunciation marks you as an ignorant outsider. Every place has idiosyncratic misuses of terms that com…

Fair point, I agree I made it too arrogant.

We all have things we misuse, but I think those things may characterize us sometimes. For example, in Russian we often misuse the word Hindu to mean Indian. It may mean that the person is uneducated and maybe even unaware of the difference. A couple of my friends who've been to India or are nerds about other cultures, don't misuse the word, some even go around ranting about it.

I personally feel that the way Americans use "Caucasian" is a more blatant misuse than others, and maybe that's what made me react that way. Like what is exact idea one has to miss and be unaware of to use "Caucasian" for "white"? What adds to it is that, if I understand correctly, using "Caucasian" instead of "white" in English makes you sound more official and important. I guess I can see that it's being used due to legal tradition and that's hard to change.

Re: Georgian wine culture dates back, uninterrupted, approximately 8k years

#30

Post by mmsc »

poisonarena wrote: post #14
riffraff wrote: post #3

Georgian cuisine and drinking is little known in the west but it's really, really good. It's a pity the country has been democratically backsliding for a while, which has limited their hopes of tighter integration with the EU.

I love Sakartvelo, but its ottoman/turkish food meets slavic food.. I can't think of a single dish (khachapuri/khinkali/etc).. that is from Georgia, that also doesnt exist in its neighboring countries in the middle east under a different name, russia/ukraine, and the balkans. Dont tell them that though, they don't like it! Its a total crossroads of a country

Yes, that's why it's great. They have the best of everything around and have imo perfected it. It's difficult to think of certain foods that are actually unique to any "country", tbh.
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