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IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

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Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#711

Post by protocolture »

iberator wrote: post #264

My stance is Mossad reading: - Likud is an evil political party - Natanyahu is a wanted war criminal - IDF committed many atrocities - Hamas was insane to think that Bibi would NOT BOMB the Gaza in retaliation. - Hamas was the first to cast the stone. - Israel ALWAYS gonna retaliate with non proportional force when it comes to security of its citizens.

> Hamas was the first to cast the stone.

HAMAS is an entity formed by refugees having fled the nakba and been stored on top of each other in an open air prison.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#712

Post by protocolture »

guerrilla wrote: post #293
iberator wrote: post #264

My stance is Mossad reading: - Likud is an evil political party - Natanyahu is a wanted war criminal - IDF committed many atrocities - Hamas was insane to think that Bibi would NOT BOMB the Gaza in retaliation. - Hamas was the first to cast the stone. - Israel ALWAYS gonna retaliate with non proportional force when it comes to security of its citizens.

> Hamas was insane to think that Bibi would NOT BOMB the Gaza in retaliation. My theory is that they knew this would happen and they did it because they knew it would garner support (which it did) and they also knew they had nothing to lose because this is what would have happened in the long-term anyway. They chose between a quick death and a slow death. Unfortunately, everyone else who originally chose them to prot…

>My theory is that they knew this would happen and they did it because they knew it would garner support (which it did) and they also knew they had nothing to lose because this is what would have happened in the long-term anyway. They chose between a quick death and a slow death. Unfortunately, everyone else who originally chose them to protect them didn't get to choose. I doubt most would have voted for this if they had that choice.

Maybe. I actually think they didnt expect to be so successful also.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#713

Post by baq »

Amezarak wrote: post #478
baq wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be reminding you of something which happened a few decades earlier and was much, much worse than Serbia.

There are modern European states refounded after the Allies pursued a deliberate and calculated policy of ethnic cleansing to ensure Germans would never be a problem again - in some cases going from 25% of the population prewar to 1% afterwards, with mass violence and rape included. Ethnic cleansing is only really frowned upon when you lose, or when you win so hard it's a convenient virtue signal and disapproval does…

Everybody* east of the iron curtain was carted around in cattle carriages. Both my grandmothers were and neither was German.

*not really everybody, obviously

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#714

Post by jcul »

culi wrote: post #183
Qem wrote: post #2

Full report: https://content.forensic-architecture.org/wp-content/uploads...

Forensic Architecture is a truly remarkable work. If anybody is unfamiliar with Eyal Weizman, I would highly recommend checking out more of his work. Including the 2014 series Rebel Architecture and some of his talks. He recently did a presentation called "Conditions of Life Calculated" at the David Graeber Memorial Lecture at CIIS that I think gives a lot of insight into why the work being done at Forensic Architect…

The last time I came across Forensic Architecture was their report on the Beirut Port Explosion, someone posted it here on HN.

Mind blowing analysis.

https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/beirut-port-...

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#715

Post by YZF »

jcranmer wrote: post #675
YZF wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

When the first attack on an aid convoy to provoke outrage came out, I saw someone put it best: there is a difference between "war is chaos, and no matter how hard we try, some incidents regrettably occur" and "our rules of engagement are designed in such a manner to make these incidents almost certain." And the IDF... is pretty clearly in the latter category. > I imagine most of the armchair critics here have never b…

The only clarity here is in the eyes of those who made their decision in advance and are cherry picking. Yes- There have been quite a few incidents but the percentage is still small. There were also many friendly fire incidents. All of these happen in every war. The difference is this war is being put under a microscope and there are powerful actors trying to push a narrative.

It is the nature of how Hamas wages war in Gaza that is driving the assumptions here and the consequences. Not the "instilling via training".

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#716

Post by YZF »

andsoitis wrote: post #668
YZF wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> We know that the soldiers lied about some of the facts and some have been disciplined and removed from command. Removed from command for killing aid workers point blank? That seems like a light wrap on the wrist, not commensurate with the severity of the deed, no?

There is no actual evidence that they killed people blank point knowing they were aid workers. As I mentioned references an article from the Guardian as "proof" of that where even the Guardian acknowledges this is not known.

Removing from command is a pretty serious penalty as far as the military goes. Yes, it is not a criminal punishment but that action was taken "out of the loop" of the investigation towards criminal charges.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#717

Post by xg15 »

xdennis wrote: post #660
xg15 wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the Palestinians then?

Historically, Palestine has never been a country. The Romans captured Judea, and later expelled the Jews and renamed the province Syria Palaestina (after previous enemies of the Jews). After the Romans, many other empires held the land: the Arabs, Mamluks, Turks, British. But at no point was it a country. Even when the Egyptians and Jordanians captured Gaza and the West Bank, they didn't give independence to Palestin…

Yes, that's the standard text, I know. (Just ignoring the arab movement since the 1880s to make it a country and the British promise to help with that).

But that wasn't my question. If Palestine isn't a country, then what are the Palestinians?

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#719

Post by deaux »

dralley wrote: post #216
Vasbarlog wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> problem is that both sides lie flagrantly And yet one side is committing genocide.

[flagged]

You're correct, it was yet another genocide carried out by the Israeli state, as usual.

> In an interview with Politico in 2023, former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said that "In the last 15 years, Israel did everything to downgrade the Palestinian Authority and to boost Hamas." He continued saying "Gaza was on the brink of collapse because they had no resources, they had no money, and the PA refused to give Hamas any money. Bibi saved them. Bibi made a deal with Qatar and they started to move millions and millions of dollars to Gaza." At a Likud party conference in 2019, Benjamin Netanyahu said:

> “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.” - Benjamin Netanyahu

> Gershon Hacohen, former commander of the 7th Armored Brigade and an associate of Benjamin Netanyahu, said in 2019 in an interview:

> “Netanyahu’s strategy is to prevent the option of two states, so he is turning Hamas into his closest partner. Openly Hamas is an enemy. Covertly, it’s an ally.”

Swiss Policy Research has excellent documentation on the promotion of Hamas in Gaza by Israel:

https://swprs.org/2023/10/20/israel-palestine-overview/

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#720

Post by YZF »

kombine wrote: post #685
YZF wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> That the anti-Israelis are going to latch on it as proof that Israel is evil is an unfortunate side effect. Defenders of Israel always try to put a label on us: anti-Semites, anti-Iaraelis etc. You are trying to make it seem like this was some kind of isolated incident, an unfortunate consequence of the war. It wasn't: Gaza is in ruins, Israel continues ethnic cleansing in West Bank all while gaslighting everyone w…

[flagged]
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