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IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

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Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#521

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Read the article. This is an incredible feat of science and technology. The "forensic architecture" done here uses genuinely innovative and groundbreaking technologies and techniques. Even if you somehow have no sympathy for the conflict it is undeniably fascinating work

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#522
post #512
post #305

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A stat I came across recently is that over 60% of Israeli's don't support a two state solution - i.e. they don't support the idea of Palestinians having a state. This also tracks with my travels to Palestine, friends who have travelled more recently, and various videos and article: the right-left in Israel is quite different to the right-left in other Western nations: namely, if you talk to a leftist Israeli, they wi…

Two years after the 2005 Israeli unilateral withdrawal from Gaza (and the Israeli government evicted Israeli settlers from Gaza), the support in Israel for a two-state solution was 70% in favor. They were optimistic! Looking at the long term history of Israel, the left was more optimistic in general about hopes for peace with the Palestinians, while the right more suspected that Arafat never really wanted peace, and…

The 'withdrawal' wasn't really a withdrawal, was it. There was still a blockade, and IDF's routine 'mowing the lawn'.

Let's not pretend that the 2005 'withdrawal' was a chance for a fresh start for the Palestinians that they floundered. The various negotiations were very one sided, and the offers were also unacceptable.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#523

Iranian here! I wish freedom for the people of Gaza and an end to their suffering and oppression. Down with all the dictators and oppressors. Be it IRGC or IDF.

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"Stop hitting yourself", good old bully logic

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#524

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haaretz is a left wing rag, they are just as trustworthy as hamas health ministry

And the IDF? They're hardly the only ones reporting this. https://www.cnn.com/2026/01/30/middleeast/israeli-military-g... > Israeli newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth quoted military officials Thursday as saying, “We estimate that about 70,000 Gazans were killed in the war, not including the missing.” Kan 11, the country’s public broadcaster , attributed the information to the Coordinator of Government Affairs in the Territo…

yes, 70,000 Gazans, 50k of whom were males of fighting age, no other army managed to achieve such low civilian-to militants casualties ratio, under such extreme war conditions

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#525
post #396

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The old, they had it coming defence of genocide.

If you play with fire you might get burned.

Hamas and friends understand this and rely on western morality to protect them from complete annihilation. They may have miscalculated how often you could kick the dog before it bit back.

This, of course, cuts both ways.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#526

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I hear this sentiment a lot when it comes to people trying to justify why Ukrainians or Iranians are somehow less deserving of their attentions, and it infuriates me every time. If the goal is to try to prevent unjustified killings, then it makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense. In a democracy your government (supposedly) represents you, thus the actions of your government are those you are partly morally responsible for and partly have some control over. If Russia or China is selling AK47s to warlords in Sudan, there's not much that westerners can do about it

This is supposing that people only have an obligation to not cause harm, and that those who are able have no moral obligation to actively help protect those who need and deserve it. Kind of like the trolley problem, I suppose.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#527

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> I recall some time ago an Israeli strike--they hit with a roof knocker, Hamas responded by ordering the neighbors to rush to the roof. Too slow, the house was packed with people when the bomb fell. And somehow that's Israel's fault?! I don't even understand what you are trying to tell me here. You are constructing a sourceless story that after the Israeli Army dropped a small bomb on a house ( "roof knocker" is a e…

> the Israeli Army dropped a small bomb on a house

Roof knocking is using non explosive ordinance. It is, by definition, not a bomb. Attacking its use is wild, its a tactic that saves civilian lives, even if you disagree with the validity of the target.

> that means you think that Hamas sent these people on the roof to let the Israeli army execute them, not even to use them as a human shield.

Yes. That is what human shielding is. The unfortunate reality is that it is irresponsible to completely stop attacks when human shielding is used, as it encourages further use of the practice. Just like blaming Israel for all of those death is also encouraging Hamas to further use the tactic.

> What would be the military objective here?

Hamas has been very clear that deaths of their civilians further the Palestinian cause by causing the world to turn on Israel. The objective here is clear.

Now I turn it back to you: what is the military purpose of roof knocking?

No double tapping doesn't make sense here. You wouldn't use a non-explosive ordinance if the goal was "double tapping"

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#528

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> I’m not sure why the Palestinians and allies are complaining. Their stated aim is the genocide of Jews and the destruction of Israel. That’s Hezbollah, Hamas, Iran, Yemen. And they’ve tried but are too incompetent to succeed. It's not like the other side is peaceful and wants to make love and fight war. Israel has been violently kicking out Palestinians from their lands for the past 70-80 years. Before that, among…

I feel like there were a few one sided wars we’re forgetting about… This is also a strange advocacy for British or Ottoman rule. Maybe you’re right, if the Israelies acted like their colonial forebears there would be less violence.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#530

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I find that a good sniff-test in politics is to change the actor in a claim to be Jewish and then consider if that make the claim an antisemitic conspiracy theory. Works surprisingly well. For example: > facing an enemy [Hamas] who does everything they can to get their own people killed to make you look bad Imagine the "enemy" in that sentence was not "Hamas", but "The Jews" - that would be a very antisemitic narrati…

> Imagine the "enemy" in that sentence was not "Hamas", but "The Jews" - that would be a very antisemitic narrative,

Your substitution turns a true statement into a false statement; this mechanism is at best meaningless. Yes, making false claims about Jews is antisemitic, but that has no bearing on statements that aren't false.

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