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Writing code is cheap now

simonwillison.net

421–430 of 522 posts

Re: Writing code is cheap now

#421
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the top % of talent is still extremely hard to get, perhaps moreso saw an article recently where every sector is seeing a reduction in IT/devs except for tech and ai companies if your company is in a sector where eng is a cost-center and the product is not directly tied to your engineers / your company is pushing for efficiency it's an employer's market

I don't think it makes sense to consider top % of the talent - relative to the total amount of engineers I imagine it would be minuscule. It's the rest who will have to deal with shrinking number of positions, higher competition and possibly decrease in compensation due to said competition.

Unfortunately agreed, i see swe (already) going the way of finance

most jobs are okay comp 9-6s with a small group of elite talent making extremely outsized comp

more emphasis on pedigree, exclusive hiring pipelines from top schools

Re: Writing code is cheap now

#422
post #409
post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What was expensive was everything around it" - when I say that code has always been expensive that's part of what I'm factoring in. But even typing that first few hundred lines used to have a much more significant cost attached. I just pasted 256 lines of JavaScript into the 2000s-era SLOCount tool (classic Perl, I have a WebAssembly hosted version here https://tools.simonwillison.net/sloccount ) and it gave me a 20…

people became millionaires writing html 30 years ago. there's been these shifts in the past.

People became billionaires from domain names in the dot com era.

Re: Writing code is cheap now

#423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many enterprises are currently exploring to see if they can invite developers to leverage AI tools—like they leveraged the compiler—to be more productive. To operate on a higher plane of agency, collaborating on what we should be building and not just technical execution. The thing is, developers have been hired to automate process, and as for any professional doing a good job, that means the output should perform…

> "Or a crane that will stall and drop its load randomly. It would have been sent to the scrapyard on the first day." The only reason you have the concept that engines can "stall" is because people have bought engines that can stall by the hundreds of millions, instead of the earliest people refusing to buy them at all and all waiting for the perfect engine. Container ships can sink with all the containers lost at se…

You forgot to address the random aspect of the failure cases.

Real world is chaotic, technology was always first about controlling, then improving said control. A lot of the risks in the situations you described have been brought down that the savings (time, money,…) are magnitude more than the cost of the failure.

I’m not asking for perfection, but something good enough that we can demonstrate the savings outweigh the costs. So far there’s none. In fact, we are increasing it. And fast.

Re: Writing code is cheap now

#424
post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been in these situations before. If there's a known bug in an internal tool that would take the development team a day to investigate and fix - aka $10,000s - it's often smarter to send around an email saying "don't click the Froople button more than once, and if you do tell Benjamin and he'll fix it in the database for you". Of course LLMs change that equation now because the fix might take a few minutes instea…

> development team a day to investigate and fix - aka $10,000s What about the non-fictional 99.999999999% of the world that doesn't make $1000/hour?

Large companies are often very bad at organizing work, to the tune of increasing the cost of everything by a large multiple over what you'd think it should be. Most of that cost wouldn't be productive developer time.

Re: Writing code is cheap now

#425
post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think most of us would be fine if the LLMs could actually just type out the code for us after we engineered it in our heads and explained it to the LLM in English language. Alas, they do produce some sort of code, but not always, or often enough not in a way we desribed it. That's exactly what they do for me - especially since the November model releases (GPT-5.1, Opus 4.5). > Where is the superintelligence we we…

> That's exactly what they do for me - especially since the November model releases (GPT-5.1, Opus 4.5). I mean it's inherently impossible, given the statistical nature of LLMs, so I am not sure are you claiming this out of ignorance or other interests, but again, what you claim is impossible due to the very nature of LLMs.

It's impossible, and yet I experience it on a daily basis.

YMMV. I've had a lot of practice at prompting.

Re: Writing code is cheap now

#426
post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been in these situations before. If there's a known bug in an internal tool that would take the development team a day to investigate and fix - aka $10,000s - it's often smarter to send around an email saying "don't click the Froople button more than once, and if you do tell Benjamin and he'll fix it in the database for you". Of course LLMs change that equation now because the fix might take a few minutes instea…

> development team a day to investigate and fix - aka $10,000s What about the non-fictional 99.999999999% of the world that doesn't make $1000/hour?

It costs them single digit thousands instead.

Re: Writing code is cheap now

#428
post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People became billionaires from domain names in the dot com era.

haha! do you know details, what domains?

Mark Cuban sold broadcast.com to Yahoo for $5.7bn

It was a bit more than a domain name - they had 330 employees and $13.5 million in revenue for a quarter - but that acquisition was definitely peak dot-com boom.

Re: Writing code is cheap now

#429

> Code has always been expensive. Producing a few hundred lines of clean, tested code takes most software developers a full day or more. Many of our engineering habits, at both the macro and micro level, are built around this core constraint. > ... > Writing good code remains significantly more expensive I think this is a bad argument. Code was expensive because you were trying to write the expensive good code in the…

Yeah, I have to agree. Worth noting that deterministic "code-generation" systems have existed for quite some time. It's just that once you saw something like that being useful for your system, that gave pause to critique the existing system design.

Boilerplate is boilerplate, whether filling it in is purely mechanical or benefits from an LLM's fuzzy logic.

Re: Writing code is cheap now

#430
post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren’t you also paying internal staff for their time. Waisting their time is waisting your money.

I've been in these situations before. If there's a known bug in an internal tool that would take the development team a day to investigate and fix - aka $10,000s - it's often smarter to send around an email saying "don't click the Froople button more than once, and if you do tell Benjamin and he'll fix it in the database for you". Of course LLMs change that equation now because the fix might take a few minutes instea…

> If there's a known bug in an internal tool that would take the development team a day to investigate and fix - aka $10,000s - it's often smarter to send around an email saying "don't click the Froople button more than once, and if you do tell Benjamin and he'll fix it in the database for you".

How much will Benjamin's time responding to those calls cost in the long run?

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