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Firefox 148 Launches with AI Kill Switch Feature and More Enhancements

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Re: Firefox 148 Launches with AI Kill Switch Feature and More Enhancements

#131

Post by mort96 »

mrklol wrote: post #115
ddxv wrote: post #102

Where are the AI features in Firefox? Looking around right now the only one I see is right click tab -> Summarize page (NEW). I googled a bit and see they have some grouping of tabs feature I've never used/seen (or want). The only other maybe AI feature I remember seeing is the odd left hand bar that is there on fresh installs and I usually remove to declutter. Are those the features this kill switch removes or was t…

Firefox mentions the following ones: "- Translations, which help you browse the web in your preferred language. - Alt text in PDFs, which add accessibility descriptions to images in PDF pages. - AI-enhanced tab grouping, which suggests related tabs and group names. - Link previews, which show key points before you open a link. - AI chatbot in the sidebar, which lets you use your chosen chatbot as you browse, includin…

I wonder what sort of user testing made them decide that what Firefox users really need is a chat bot in the site bar. Isn't a chat bot in a tab good enough?

And calling translation "AI" seems like deceitful retroactive rebranding. Why is machine translation suddenly "AI" now? It was never branded as such before. Is "AI" here just used to mean machine learning?

Re: Firefox 148 Launches with AI Kill Switch Feature and More Enhancements

#132

Post by godelski »

whizzter wrote: post #127
godelski wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other thing people can do is install Firefox and use it. An uptick in user share also serves as a metric to reinforce the move. Let's be honest, most people complaining are using chrome or some flavor. But current Firefox users could probably temporarily turn on telemetry, activate the kill switch, and turn telemetry back off. Just make sure you wait long enough to ensure the information is sent

They should get the best metrics out of update server communications anyhow, 30% or more users getting update downloads than having AI enabled should be obvious.

I've read this three times now and still don't understand you. Do you think people don't update their software? Are you just counting every update as people happy about the kill switch?

There'll be so much noise in that signal it'll be almost useless. You can't differentiate it from anything else. For all anyone knows it happened because the word Firefox was in the top story on hacker news

Re: Firefox 148 Launches with AI Kill Switch Feature and More Enhancements

#133

Post by godelski »

PunchyHamster wrote: post #117
godelski wrote: post #84

Firefox does what some people want, people complain. Firefox does what other people want, people complain. Firefox does what both people want, people complain. I'm sorry, but we'll never get corporations to do what we want if we don't throw them the smallest bone when we get our way. You need positive reinforcement too, not just negative. If it's all negative they just stop caring and you get companies lot Google who…

> So what, we're just going to hand the keys of the kingdom to the guys selling artisian turd sandwiches because what, there isn't enough mayo on your ham sandwich? Because you don't like ham? Firefox is the artisan turd sandwich. They are burning dev time on features barely anyone asked, while bleeding market share for last decade

Okay, so in your version who is Google? And chromium?

Re: Firefox 148 Launches with AI Kill Switch Feature and More Enhancements

#135

Post by TiredOfLife »

godelski wrote: post #84

Firefox does what some people want, people complain. Firefox does what other people want, people complain. Firefox does what both people want, people complain. I'm sorry, but we'll never get corporations to do what we want if we don't throw them the smallest bone when we get our way. You need positive reinforcement too, not just negative. If it's all negative they just stop caring and you get companies lot Google who…

The reason people complain is because Mozilla claims it's better and more pure than everybody else.

Re: Firefox 148 Launches with AI Kill Switch Feature and More Enhancements

#136

Post by johnnyanmac »

godelski wrote: post #101
themafia wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> will also be users who have disabled Firefox metrics collection and so will not have their opinion counted. Gee. If only there was a way to collect users opinions on things. Welp.. guess we have to live with subtly spying on everything they do with our software.

Most people aren't vocal. Most people who are vocal aren't representative of users. Many vocal people aren't even users. Don't get me wrong, I turn off telemetry, but you're acting like it's easy to get that information. You act like people don't scream when Firefox prompts people with surveys. You act like there isn't bias in survey takers. If you just pretend everything is easy we'll just end up reinventing the sam…

> but you're acting like it's easy to get that information.

It is, relatively speaking.

> You act like people don't scream when Firefox prompts people with surveys.

Surveys without proper response and adjustments aren't passing feedback, it's political theatre. People groan about surveys because it takes time and rarely shows results reflectant of the responses.

We know the system is broken. Hard to shame us into thinking we're the ones who broke it.

> You act like there isn't bias in survey takers.

You act like statisticians don't spend half their field accounting around bias.

>we'll just end up reinventing the same evils we're trying to fight today.

Let's have the old evils dealt with before worrying about creating new evils who happen to do the exact same thing as the "old evils" (spoilers: they are the same picture).

Re: Firefox 148 Launches with AI Kill Switch Feature and More Enhancements

#137

Post by Spixel_ »

mrklol wrote: post #115
ddxv wrote: post #102

Where are the AI features in Firefox? Looking around right now the only one I see is right click tab -> Summarize page (NEW). I googled a bit and see they have some grouping of tabs feature I've never used/seen (or want). The only other maybe AI feature I remember seeing is the odd left hand bar that is there on fresh installs and I usually remove to declutter. Are those the features this kill switch removes or was t…

Firefox mentions the following ones: "- Translations, which help you browse the web in your preferred language. - Alt text in PDFs, which add accessibility descriptions to images in PDF pages. - AI-enhanced tab grouping, which suggests related tabs and group names. - Link previews, which show key points before you open a link. - AI chatbot in the sidebar, which lets you use your chosen chatbot as you browse, includin…

They all seem like great features.

Re: Firefox 148 Launches with AI Kill Switch Feature and More Enhancements

#138

Post by johnnyanmac »

TylerE wrote: post #121
godelski wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people aren't vocal. Most people who are vocal aren't representative of users. Many vocal people aren't even users. Don't get me wrong, I turn off telemetry, but you're acting like it's easy to get that information. You act like people don't scream when Firefox prompts people with surveys. You act like there isn't bias in survey takers. If you just pretend everything is easy we'll just end up reinventing the sam…

Also, people lie. I don't trust what random users tell me, because years of tech support taught me that they're lying.

If you go into a survey expecting lies, don't expect people to be excited over taking them when you do nothing with them.

Re: Firefox 148 Launches with AI Kill Switch Feature and More Enhancements

#139

Post by mort96 »

godelski wrote: post #123
crote wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's in turn because product managers keep calling everything "AI" and shoving the bad kind in every feature they possibly can.

What is the bad kind that Firefox is shoving in? Do they have any good kind? What's the ratio?

Why is there a chat bot sidebar???

And even if there aren't that many bad AI features now, they've signalled their intent for Firefox to become an "AI browser". I don't know what they mean by that, but I know I don't want it. The chat bot sidebar is surely just the beginning.

It's primarily in response to the backlash from people who don't want an "AI browser" that they're promising a kill switch. But I don't want to use an "AI browser with AI features disabled", I just wanna use a regular web browser...

Re: Firefox 148 Launches with AI Kill Switch Feature and More Enhancements

#140

Post by throwmeoutplzdo »

jahsome wrote: post #106
throwmeoutplzdo wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The legal structures that mandate what power google actually has over mozilla still presumably exist though. Pretending that we are in full blown dictatorship is, in my view, still cynical. Though of course there’s no telling how far we will eventually go in a trumpworld.

> Pretending that we are in full blown dictatorship is, in my view, still cynical. Could you please point to what I said that implies I'm pretending a "full blown dictatorship?" I apologize if that's somehow what I indicated. It certainly wasn't my intent.

”[…] the times I was so naive and idealistic.”

”[…] I envy the worldview it's possible someone can take money from another and still maintain independence.”

Do you believe relying on our legal system is naive and idealistic?

What would be the non-idealistic view other than no structures can be trusted and that we live in a dictatorship?

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