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Silicon Valley can't import talent like before. So it's exporting jobs

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Re: Silicon Valley can't import talent like before. So it's exporting jobs

#51

Post by lkjdsklf »

baron816 wrote: post #34
palmotea wrote: post #13

> If tech talent can’t come to the U.S., American companies will go where the talent is. LOL! They're going to send the jobs where the wages are cheaper, and that's exactly what they're doing. IIRC, my employer stopped offering new H1-B sponsorships in most cases, after they opened an office in India (10+ years ago). They didn't open the office because they had a hard time hiring in the US. They opened it because the…

Why are Americans entitled to those jobs? If there are people in other countries happily willing to accept 1/10 of the pay do to the same work, why is it morally wrong deny them those jobs?

I don't think anyone believes they're entitled to them.

However, in my opinion, if these companies want to continue to enjoy preferable tax treatment and the deregulated environment the US provides them, then they should be expected to hire people in the US to drive the US economy.

If they're not going to do that, then we (meaning the Government both state and federal) should stop incentivizing them. Why would we give government contracts to a company that's offshoring jobs? Why would we give them tax breaks? Why would we leave their markets largely unregulated?

The US Government should incentivize and support companies that are providing value residents of the US. As these companies move to offshoring (and other similar policies), they become economically extractive and the government should no longer support and enable such behavior.

Re: Silicon Valley can't import talent like before. So it's exporting jobs

#52

Post by baron816 »

bigthymer wrote: post #46
baron816 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are Americans entitled to those jobs? If there are people in other countries happily willing to accept 1/10 of the pay do to the same work, why is it morally wrong deny them those jobs?

I think the logic goes something like...in a democracy, government policies should reflect the will of the people. The majority of the people are against exporting jobs overseas when the economy at home is not doing well, especially when the people that control the hiring are becoming obscenely wealthy at the cost of impoverishing the workers.

So, America First then?

Re: Silicon Valley can't import talent like before. So it's exporting jobs

#54

Post by abhiyerra »

Anecdotally, I heard some Indians in the USA working at Big Tech are moving back to India to take the skills they developed in the USA to train and organize teams in India.

I’d say what India struggles a lot with is organizational skills so it will be interesting if this is true and to see what results in a couple of years. Will Indians continue on the services path or will they move to the R&D path.

Re: Silicon Valley can't import talent like before. So it's exporting jobs

#55

Post by kadabra9 »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #31
kadabra9 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how this is always framed as a "pipeline and talent" problem issue (its not), when it's really a "pipeline and talent at salaries I want to pay" issue.

I like paying as little as possible for everything I buy as well and so does everyone else reading this. So what's the problem?

At least you own it, rather than making up an excuse like "talent shortage" or "pipeline" issue to try to conceal the fact that at the end of the day you're just trying to save a buck.

Re: Silicon Valley can't import talent like before. So it's exporting jobs

#56

Post by jonfw »

jmclnx wrote: post #8
alephnerd wrote: post #2

We warned everyone that this would happen [0] but HN fell for the populism trap. And no one on the Hill will do anything to impact services exports, especially for voters who work in maligned industries like Tech [1], Big Oil [2], and Wall Street [3] that are overwhelmingly concentrated in single party states like California, Washington, Texas, and New York and as such can't swing elections the same way an Autoworker…

Yes I say you are right, but that only proves these companies only want to hire very cheap labor. There is talent in the US, all it takes is training. Decades ago companies would train new hires out of college, but that trend ended in the 90s. Wall Street started forcing these companies to chase fast market growth and high stock prices. In many cases profit has no meaning for these startups, the only metric is stock…

> Decades ago companies would train new hires out out college, but that trend ended in the 90s.

Decades ago engineering salaries were a fraction of what they are today, developing countries did not have computing and educational infrastructure, and we had worse solutions to the logistics challenges from off-shoring.

It is increasingly difficult to justify the US salaries and I'm not sure that the talent pipeline in the US is so superior to make up for it.

As folks optimize for getting these high paying jobs it is increasingly difficult to find someone who has legitimate problem solving skills vs someone who has invested a lot of effort into looking hireable.

Re: Silicon Valley can't import talent like before. So it's exporting jobs

#57

Post by mikkupikku »

baron816 wrote: post #52
bigthymer wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the logic goes something like...in a democracy, government policies should reflect the will of the people. The majority of the people are against exporting jobs overseas when the economy at home is not doing well, especially when the people that control the hiring are becoming obscenely wealthy at the cost of impoverishing the workers.

So, America First then?

Who else first? Doesn't every democratic countries populace broadly attempt to vote in their own interests? Was there ever a pretext that they shouldn't?

Re: Silicon Valley can't import talent like before. So it's exporting jobs

#58

Post by kadabra9 »

simianwords wrote: post #38
jmclnx wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I say you are right, but that only proves these companies only want to hire very cheap labor. There is talent in the US, all it takes is training. Decades ago companies would train new hires out of college, but that trend ended in the 90s. Wall Street started forcing these companies to chase fast market growth and high stock prices. In many cases profit has no meaning for these startups, the only metric is stock…

It’s less this but more that talent diversity is present elsewhere. You need constant supply of talent and a good ecosystem that sustains it. Focusing talent only in a small geographical area has its own risks.

Talent diversity willing to work for lower salaries is present elsewhere. That's really what it comes down to.

Re: Silicon Valley can't import talent like before. So it's exporting jobs

#59

Post by giancarlostoro »

siliconc0w wrote: post #32
lokar wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at Google for years. We simply hired as many people as we could find who could get through the process. If they were outside the US we would try to get them here. If not, we would find a spot for them outside. We would never hire a less qualified person simply because they could work in the US. We were always behind, to the point that having open “headcount” in an org was worth little, what you needed was pr…

This was the old Google, new Google lays off teams and moves them to India. New grad hiring is all but paused, hiring just enough to Seniors to backfill attrition and trying to slot them in at n-1 or n-2 levels.

I've been told by completely different friends, at unrelated companies spanning countries and different US states that if I was only Indian they're sure HR would have called me back. I applied at each of these companies over the years. There's no shortage of talent in the US, there's an uptick in hiring discrimination.

Re: Silicon Valley can't import talent like before. So it's exporting jobs

#60

Post by Scarblac »

parineum wrote: post #22
kadabra9 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how this is always framed as a "pipeline and talent" problem issue (its not), when it's really a "pipeline and talent at salaries I want to pay" issue.

Every economic decisions has that "at the price I want" caveat at the end of it? There's no housing shortage, just a shortage of house at the right place and price. Different places have the right price, the right places don't have the right prices. There's no job shortage, just a shortage of jobs that pay what I want and am qualified for. Shortages happen in controlled economies, capitalism just adjusts prices.

Houses are different. There is a finite number of them at any time and if there are not enough for everyone, there's a shortage.

If wages are too high, then some work just doesn't get done, some business plans are now unviable.

But everybody needs a place to live.

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